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Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: We can return to the issue, but the general directions can be for any purpose relating to this Act or any other enactment or any matter or thing referred to in the Act. The directive power of the Minister is very extensive under section 10. That is as it should be because the Minister is accountable to the Oireachtas. The Oireachtas is exercising the taxing power of raising the funds that...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Most Members spoke to the section rather than the amendment. The key word is "facilitate". The executive is obliged to facilitate the education and training of students and the employees of service providers. We are considering the well-established practice of the in-service training in institutions which will be managed by the health service executive of persons training not alone to be...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: As the Senator is aware, a significant amount has been invested by the Minister and the Department in the development of higher education in recent years, especially on the nursing side. However, funding is always a matter of individual negotiation in the appropriate context. For example, with regard to in-service training, the question of remuneration and funding becomes a matter between the...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: No, we are at cross purposes. If in-service training is taking place, questions of funding may arise.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Public funding of third level institutions is a matter for the Department of Education and Science. I agree with what Senator Daly has said on this subject. I think that has been part of our problem but it is not being addressed directly in this legislation.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: It is being addressed indirectly. If one has a unified health executive examining the issues, the possibility of devising an integrated approach to this problem is far greater than under the present arrangement with a multiplicity of health authorities. There is no doubt, therefore, that a single authority will identify far more quickly than at present where are the gaps and bottlenecks in...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: No.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: We have travelled a long way from simply exploring the meaning of the word "facilitate", which was the point of departure for this particular discussion.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Senator Daly led us very far down this path. It highlights a point, which is an important one, that the executive will be engaged in national workforce planning. As a result of that planning exercise, the executive will identify where there are difficulties, including gaps in provision. To answer Senator O'Toole's question, the executive cannot establish a school of pharmacy. These are...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: However, the executive will play an important part as a vital cog in the administrative machine, identifying exactly how many therapists and other disciplines are required, and then seeking the appropriate response from the Government in the context of overall policy.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Amendment No. 4 seeks to freeze practices in the context of the Eastern Regional Health Authority. That is a rigid requirement to impose in the legislation. It would unnecessarily curtail the obligations on the executive to deal simply with education as it is frozen today in current or contemporary practice on 1 January 2005.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: The voluntary and community sector is not ignored in this Bill. Section 7(5)(a) stipulates that in performing its functions, the executive must have regard to, "services provided by voluntary and other bodies that are similar or ancillary to the services the executive is authorised to provide." I appreciate the point made by Senators that this relates to service provision in its terms....

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Consultative machinery is of course established in the legislation. In addition I reiterate the point I have already made. Services in this context often encompass advocacy. The Department funds a number of organisations in respect of their advocacy services. There is circularity in the conversation the Senator and I are having about this subject. Clearly the anxiety of Senators is that the...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Negotiations are continuing with the various staff representative institutions. Mr. Phil Flynn has been brought in to facilitate these negotiations which are aimed at addressing and resolving the industrial and staff relations with senior management in the existing health services to which Senator O'Toole referred.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: The negotiations are ongoing. The legislation does not change doctors' existing contracts, it maintains them. I take it the Senator was referring to some other parallel discussion in that context.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Yes. The replacement has been done by what lawyers term "novation", whereby a new party stands in the shoes of a previous party. Under the legislation, the health service executive will stand in the shoes of the relevant health board. There is no question about the termination of contracts. That does not arise.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: I am surprised that Senator O'Toole, with his knowledge of employment law, is not well aware of the fact that, on occasion, an employer can be replaced by another employer and that employees can continue working for the latter with the same rights they previously enjoyed. That is a well-established feature of the employment law landscape. It is certainly a feature of the landscape being dealt...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: The section states: Every contract, agreement or arrangement made between a specified body and any other person and in force immediately before the establishment day—— (a) continues in force on and after that day, (b) is to be read and have effect as if the name of the Executive were substituted in the contract, agreement or arrangement for that of the specified body ... Senator O'Toole...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: On the enactment of the legislation, however, he will, in effect, be a member of a health board because the Houses of the Oireachtas will have functions in respect of the health service executive and the Minister. Committees of the Houses will, as appropriate, be able to summon officers to appear before them in order to question them about matters. Senator O'Toole will note that the...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: I thank Senator Henry for her intervention because it is an object lesson in why we need this legislation. It was necessary to correspond with 11 different health authorities to elicit this information which the Minister, regrettably, has not been able to obtain for the Senator to date. The amendments reflect a discussion that took place in the other House and the Minister responded in...

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