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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: This issue is important. We have been talking for ten minutes about the costs of the liquidation of Anglo Irish Bank, but have not heard a single figure mentioned yet. I repeat that the response sounds like the answer we would have got to a question on the cost of a tribunal, that it all depends. Mr. Moran can see how we can see no difference.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I understand Mr. Moran does not have the information with him.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: Let me put it on the record that I am on Mr. Moran's side on this. I believe it was the right decision to liquidate and believe the Department is carrying out the right process. I am happy the Department is getting the various loan fund packages and that it is all happening. Perhaps Mr. Moran cannot provide this information, but does he know what fees the liquidator has been paid to date,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Moran knows what I am getting at. What fees have been paid? He has given a good context and has compared the cost of the liquidator's staff versus what the cost of what it would have been to pay the staff in the IBRC if it had continued to manage down the bank in its own time. Does he have a figure here on the estimated annual running cost of the bank or will he send it on to us?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: My next question is, by what kind of benchmark can we judge this? That is one type of benchmark by which we can judge the outcome of this process. It is very difficult to find effective benchmarks, but the other one I would suggest is a consideration of how the cost of winding down the €20 billion in Anglo Irish Bank compares with the costs incurred by NAMA for a proportionate...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: In regard to IBRC, the signs are that further funding will not be required, which sounds like good news. If there is a surplus at the end of the process, where does it go? Mr. Moran referred to unpaid creditors.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: In respect of NAMA, what are Mr. Moran's views on an earlier wind-up? Is it a good thing if we can at least recover par or does he believe we should hold out longer and perhaps make a profit, thereby bringing down the net cost of the banking investment to well below the €40 billion we have been discussing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Moran referred to projections for how the banking sector in Ireland will look in 2020. ACC Bank, Danske Bank and Bank of Scotland have either moved out of the Irish market or are winding down their operations here. We are facing a situation, in other words, where we will have very few banks and very little competition. I do not see that issue being fully addressed in the documents to...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: The insurance compensation fund had a balance going into 2013 of €735 million. How do issues such as Setanta Insurance going into liquidation impact on that fund? Do Setanta Insurance and Quinn Insurance, for instance, have a call on the fund?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Moran can understand why ordinary people might be concerned about an insurance company in Cyprus having a passport to do business in Ireland. Effectively, the State had no control over that company's behaviour because it was not regulated here and, as a result, Irish people have lost out. Mr. Moran appears to be saying we should take steps in this regard in respect of our financial...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I have one final question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: My final question relates to a different topic, namely, the establishment of Irish Water. Now that the debts of local authorities - from borrowings relating to PPP arrangements, etc., for their water investment programmes - are being transferred to a semi-State agency, what proportion of the national debt will be transferred from general government debt to the debt of the said agency? Will...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: I asked two.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. Moran send us a note on the matter?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. Moran forward a note on the position on VAT? Will he also forward information on the amount of debt removed from the balance sheet?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2012
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Finance Accounts 2012
(8 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. Moran provide a note on the position on VAT?

Leaders' Questions (13 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: Dream on.

Written Answers — Department of An Taoiseach: Departmental Bodies Data (13 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: 137. To ask the Taoiseach the number of commercial semi-State companies under the aegis of his Department; the current value of the pension fund assets held by each commercial semi-State company; the latest funding position of each; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20912/14]

Written Answers — Department of An Taoiseach: Departmental Bodies (13 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: 141. To ask the Taoiseach the number of State agencies and public bodies that have been merged or abolished in each year since 2011, under the remit of his Department; the annual savings associated with each body; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21799/14]

Written Answers — Department of An Taoiseach: Departmental Staff Remuneration (13 May 2014)

Seán Fleming: 142. To ask the Taoiseach the number of public servants employed in his Department on a lower pay scale to their colleagues; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21828/14]

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