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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: The witnesses are very welcome. Mr. Soffe said in his statement that there was an obligation placed on NAMA by the Oireachtas to do its business commercially and expeditiously. NAMA also had a policy of openly marketing loan sales but it deviated from that with the Project Eagle sale. It was only very late in the day that other bidders were invited into the process and the timeline seems...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Was Lazard not brought in after PIMCO withdrew? If that is the case, it did not advise NAMA of it in advance. I think it would be fair to say it advised NAMA in hindsight. It has been suggested that Northern Ireland was a different category, but 50% of the assets associated with the loans were not based in Northern Ireland. Why were they not separated out? They would not have raised the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: I ask Mr. Soffe to address the questions I have asked.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, I can see that that could be the case. It seems to have been the case in almost all of the Northern Ireland loan portfolio and not just parts of it. Is that how Mr. McEnery sees it?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: The common denominator is that the loans were owned by people rather than based in Northern Ireland. How many loans that were owned by Northern Ireland-based people were actually sold separate to Project Eagle?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Very little, really, in comparison-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Right.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Would Mr. McEnery accept that Lazard was brought in after the event? NAMA relies on it to say it advised, but that advice was provided in retrospect rather than in advance.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Mr. McEnery referred to Fortress as regretting that it did not make the reserve price. It was brought in very late in the day. Would that not have indicated to NAMA that there may well have been some value in dividing the loans at that stage to achieve a better outcome? Would that not have suggested to NAMA that the amount of time made available for Fortress and other bidders to consider...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Brian Rowntree told the committee he was one of the people who suggested the University of Ulster report be done. The report was done in conjunction with banks when other assets were involved. What was the thinking of the board with regard to undertaking this process? How did it anticipate it would work through these loans in the context of the University of Ulster report?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Several interim reports were presented.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Once the project was under way, interim reports were given to the Northern Ireland advisory committee and the NAMA board. Therefore, it is not true to say that the only sight that, for example, the likes of Frank Cushnahan would have had of the process would have been at the end of it. Mr. Cushnahan would not have had sight of it because he had left the advisory board but interim reports...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: While I am sure that is of value to the Northern Ireland Executive and I accept it will have benefitted from the report, I would have thought the primary purpose of the report was to benefit NAMA rather than the Northern Ireland Executive. We heard from Brian Rowntree last week that he would not bid blind for something as big as Project Eagle and he thought it was unusual for a blind bid...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: They could not.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. By virtue of the fact that it was engaged almost privately, they did really have exclusivity and would have had, had they not run into the difficulty with-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Can I just ask-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: I have just one other question.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: I will now to turn to the terms of reference, how there are always conflicts of interest and how they are resolved in situations like this. With regard to the terms of reference for the NAMA board and for the consultative committee in Northern Ireland, given that there had been a declaration that Mr. Cushnahan had engagement with a number of large developers with loans, would that not have...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Was it not very local by virtue of the fact that Mr. Cushnahan had engagement, or had an association, with a number of the large debtors? Is that not little bit too close for comfort?

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