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Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: We are all here.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: We take our responsibilities very seriously.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: It is agreed - I think everyone here agrees - that Russia carried out an illegal invasion of Ukraine. Under the triple lock, the country that carried out that illegal invasion should decide where this country participates in peacekeeping. How do the witnesses rationalise that?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: Yes, absolutely, without the UN but the UN is not functioning in its make-up and, ultimately, any peacekeeping mission that Ireland was to participate in would have to be with the consent or the abstention of the P5 members. That is the whole point of the issue here. Colonel Doyle last Tuesday stated that the UN veto system reflects the realities of global power dynamics but also leads to...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: But what if it was decided at the whim of, for example, Israel putting pressure on the United States?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: Even though it is the right place to be?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: In that case, all it would take is not having the backing of Israel encouraging the United States, for example.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: A moral mandate, a historical mandate.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: Ms Ní Bhriain is happy with the mission as it is and most people agree that there is a proud record of peacekeeping in Lebanon. What if the mission were not to be renewed because of political interference?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: What if other countries decided to stay, so that there was a presence?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: Is this Ms Ní Bhriain's position, even though one of the P5 members, as Ms Ní Bhriain agrees, has carried out an illegal invasion of another country or a number of them as Mr. Kelly stated? That is the whole point here. If it is deemed to be a proper mission today, and if one country decides it does not like it for whatever geopolitical reasons and decides not to continue on that,...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: But would it be consistent with the UN Charter?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: I welcome the witnesses back to the Oireachtas and thank them for their contributions. On the last point Ms Boylan spoke about the urge of the EU to increase spending on militarisation. Does she support additional investment in our armed forces here in terms of personnel, equipment and capabilities? On Tuesday, the military expert Mr. Colm Doyle, who is a retired colonel, was at the...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: Ms Lynn Boylan, MEP mentioned the General Assembly and the possible use of that. The last time it was used was in 1956. Without reform of the UN Security Council, as it stands, it would require clearance on an new mandate. That is part of the issue. Can either of the MEPs see any other safeguards? We acknowledge that the P5 is somewhat dysfunctional but are there other safeguards that...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: I thank the Chair and all the witnesses for presenting here this morning. I thank them for their service both here and abroad as well as the UN. I have a similar line of questioning to the previous speaker and others. Going back to the heading level of the Bill, which refers to an international force, this would still include UN-led or organised missions and missions led or organised by,...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: It has been suggested that the General Assembly could have a role. Based on her experience in the UN and knowledge of the machinations of the General Assembly, what is Ms O'Brien's view of the practicalities of this being legislated for?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: Dr. Berry and others mentioned missions they have been on, such as the UNIFIL mission in Lebanon. If there had been political interference from a P5 member and the mandate was ended and that happened on a Monday morning, practically, what happens next?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: When Ms O'Brien refers to a phased withdrawal, what sort of timescale-----

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: What were the consequences then?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (1 Jul 2025)

Seán Kyne: When Ms O'Brien refers to a phased withdrawal, presumably no one would want to leave a lacuna where a mission is uncovered.

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