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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: The Minister outlined the context of his role in his opening statement and made his legal role clear, explaining that the NAMA Act is framed to ensure there is no political interference. However, it is fair to say, and the Minister probably would agree with me, that he is not passive in this either. As Minister for Finance, he has an insight that the rest of us do not have. He would have...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, but-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, but-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: I am sorry but I have a short period of time to ask questions.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Much of that will not come as a surprise to us. The Minister would have been aware, by virtue of the fact that he would have received a letter from the Minister of Finance in Northern Ireland, that there was an interest in selling the Project Eagle loan book, which was brought as a package and was obviously referred to NAMA. The Minister would have been familiar with that from an early...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: There was a deviation from the process that had been in place for the disposal of assets. Did that concern the Minister? This was a bespoke deal. There appears to have been a debtors' charter where there was debt forgiveness. There was a single rather than dual process in terms of the sales process, which would normally be opened up to a wide group before being narrowed down to a small...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: The Minister stated he would give his views to the NAMA board and listen to the NAMA board.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: If there is a deviation from a process that had been in play until this particular transaction, surely the Minister would have had a view on that or would have considered it or questioned whether it would deliver the kind of return it was expected to deliver.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Was the Minister aware that the debtors' charter was unique and there was debt forgiveness as part of this package? Was the Minister made aware of this?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: The process followed until that point had been deviated from in this very big sale, which involved properties not only based in Northern Ireland but also loans associated with properties based in the United Kingdom, some of which were very large. There was a big shopping centre worth about £200 million and there were other loans around the £50 million mark or below. Some of them...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: I have a number of other questions. There is a clear Civil Service guideline in place pertaining to conflict of interest. Whose responsibility was it to ensure these guidelines were implemented? Was it the Department's or NAMA's responsibility?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Okay. In relation to the Frank Cushnahan fixer-fee payment, when was that drawn to the Minister's attention and what did he do about it? Did he ask for legal advice? If advice was sought, who did he ask for advice? Did he ask the Attorney General for advice?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Did the Minister form a view on the matter? Was he surprised that this emerged at that stage?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: The Minister referred to the European Central Bank. Did the ECB put pressure on NAMA to accelerate the sale of the assets or the loan book? At that point, did it intersect in any way with the timing that Project Eagle was going through? Did the compression of the timeline, from the original date of 2020 to 2018, have an impact at that point in the sales process?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: The Minister said on a number of occasions, although he later qualified it, that he had no legal function in the commercial activities of NAMA. However, he has a legal function under the Act to direct NAMA in situations where he is protecting the taxpayer. That can only be done in real time, not retrospectively. To return to the process, this was a bundled sale of a very large...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Are we establishing a commission of investigation precisely because there is the lack of a means, in real time, to protect the interests of the taxpayer?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: I have a final question. Obviously Brown Rudnick had a full six months in which to look at putting together and understand the portfolio on behalf of PIMCO. Essentially, Brown Rudnick would have gone in, looked at the data and signed a non-disclosure agreement. It would have had the advantage of having all of that time to understand what the values of the various loans were. I accept the...

Financial Resolutions 2017 - Budget Statement 2017 (11 Oct 2016)

Catherine Murphy: Not so long ago, we all fought a general election. It was not defined by the economy, as Deputy Shortall has said. It was defined by the dignified society that people collectively wanted. They wanted to know that the big ticket items would be dealt with. These include health, housing and child care, which issues arose constantly. People were sick of the tinkering around the edges and...

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