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Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Military advice.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: What was it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: So it is not the case that it was a lack of personnel. That was not an issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Our reputation is being rubbished because of our recruitment and retention issues. I ask Ms McCrum, in the times in which we live, to address that as the Secretary General of the Department. There is no point in telling me that money is not the issue and you have huge resources, because that would mean there are other issues that are not being addressed. If it were a case of all things...

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: How long has Ms McCrum been Secretary General of the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Will the witness move on?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I would be grateful to Ms McCrum if she gave the figures relating to the 8,000 applications and a breakdown of how many were recruited as employees from that figure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I was in the Chamber.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Of 8,000 applications, 415 people were employed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: It would be fairly misleading, therefore, to refer to 8,000 applications, which makes it sound as though people were knocking down the door, if we gained only 400 employees from that. Did Ms McCrum say 68 were taken in?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: How many did Ms McCrum say left?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Ms McCrum also said the next tranche was 31 and that 14 left.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: The Naval Service is a part of our Defence Forces, so I include the Naval Service in that. Did the 8,000 applicants relate to one particular cohort?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Why, then, would Ms McCrum try to make a distinction? It is 400 overall. What are the overall figures that left-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I do not have much time-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: How many people left the Defence Forces in the same period in which 400 were recruited?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: I would call that haemorrhaging staff.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: We have nearly 50% more leaving than we are recruiting-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Where would Ms McCrum see that going?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 - Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Defence
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2022
Chapter 12: Stock Management in the Defence Forces
(23 May 2024)

Verona Murphy: Excuse me, Ms McCrum-----

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