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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: I thank Ms Gordon. Mr. Duggan said the Department has engaged in an intensive nationwide inspection and compliance campaign and that it has this year increased resources in scope section and set up a new unit called the employment status inspection unit. That is all positive and to be welcomed. I would like him to give the committee an understanding of the numbers of people involved. How...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: What is the Department finding in these investigations with regard to people whose employment has been miscategorised?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: I apologise to colleagues but I have one final question. Of those 60 cases, how many resulted from the Department's investigations and inspections and how many resulted from people contacting the scope section?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: Would it be fair to assume that 30 of those 60 cases arose from employees approaching the scope section with an issue?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: The witnesses know where we are coming from. The Department has increased resources and has been proactive. We support and acknowledge that but we are trying to determine what it has yielded. How many of those 60 cases were discovered by the Department's inspectors or through the Department's efforts as opposed to being highlighted by individuals who came forward to complain about their status?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: Mr. Duggan knows what we are trying to get at.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: I ask the Department just to give us an idea. We would like to see where things are going following the establishment of the new unit, the allocation of additional staff to the scope section and so forth. I fully understand that the new unit was only set up during the summer and that training takes time but we should track what has happened year on year. It would give us a good idea of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: With much of the increased activity in the Department, along with that of the new unit which will be established, maintaining the data produced every year and highlighting the trends would be useful exercises.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: We will let Ms Gordon address that specific issue first.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: The Senator should give Mr. Duggan the opportunity to conclude.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: Time, Senator.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: If the Senator wishes for Ms Gordon to respond -----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: Does Mr. Duggan wish to refer back to the first point the Senator raised on the follow-up on the misclassification?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: Just one moment, please, Senator. On this adjustment, are the contributions then put back on to the employee's record?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: It is amended as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: If the Department does not have it to hand, it can be forwarded.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: Is Senator Higgins finished?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: I thank the Senator. Does Mr. Duggan wish to comment on this?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: Senator Higgins has made that point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Bogus Self-Employment: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Dec 2019)

John Curran: Senator Higgins might not be satisfied with the answer but she got the answer. She does not have to be happy with it.

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