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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: Is the manner in which the fund is spent also audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: I am just interested in how it is accounted for because it relates to other issues of today with other agencies and Departments. It is interesting to learn that such non-Exchequer funding also is audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General. The committee will be taking up that matter in a different context next week. As for the earlier question of the €40,000, does Mr. Ó...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: The Department has verified it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: In respect of Circular 6/1989, which was mentioned earlier, Mr. Dermot Quigley should outline what is the view of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform on this payment, top-up or however one wishes to describe it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: Mr. Quigley should explain that. Does the Department agree it should not have been paid?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: What then is the Department's view on the €40,000 or the principle of paying it? Is it excessive? In Mr. Quigley's view, is it a top-up?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: Is Mr. Quigley of the opinion that it is not something that was envisaged in terms of 6/1989?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: Is Mr. Quigley saying the arrangement that has been made in this case does not fit into 6/89-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: ----- and that the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform's normal interpretation of expenses does not extend to the interpretation put on that by the galley?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: Would Mr. Quigley then consider this payment to be a top-up?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: Why not? If it is a removal expense, it is a removal expense-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: -----and one would not be paying income tax on it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: Has the Department made its position clear to the gallery on this? Has the Department written to it explaining its determination of removal expenses and what the Department might consider to be a reasonable ceiling on those expenses? Has the Department expressed that opinion in detail in writing to them so as to give them some guideline?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: When will that report be available?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: Ms Olive Braiden, when is it likely?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: Did Dr. Braiden seek advice from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: How would Mr. Quigley and Mr. Ó Donnchú expect the board to comply when the Department did not respond with the comprehensive detail that was necessary to define their position? It has been stated here that there was a willingness to try to comply, there was a request for information, there was advice sought in terms of the taxation on that amount and the Department did not set...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: Has Mr. Quigley any such recollection?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: It is strange that it is only now that this question is being addressed by the two Departments. No one challenged Dr. Braiden on her opening remarks, in which we states, "The board sought guidance from [Mr. Ó Donnchú's Department] on the approach to determining, setting and paying these removal expenses and was advised that the board ought itself interpret the wording in the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Staff Appointments in the National Gallery of Ireland
Vote 34 - National Gallery of Ireland
(21 Nov 2013)

John McGuinness: I am not taking issue with that or with Mr. Rainbird. My point concerns the process of selection and the authority given to pay and so on. To facilitate its work, the Committee of Public Accounts would like to see the letter of sanction and some of the associated correspondence so it can understand exactly the extent to which the gallery has to go to receive clarification or sanction. ...

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