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Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: The amendment is to oppose the section. I am giving the grounds for why it should be opposed.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: I see that section 1 is opposed.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: We oppose it because it is not an acceptable amendment to the Constitution. I will elaborate further on this point. I listed the various Bills that I, while a Minister of State, debated in the Seanad to show that the Seanad was productive. On 28 April 1988, I was in this Chamber when the late Nuala Fennell, a wonderful Deputy and Senator, moved amendment No. 14 to the Adoption (No. 2) Bill...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: Yes. I am opposed to the abolition of the House, given the contribution that it has made and that it can make in future, provided that Ministers of State know how much power they have. Very few current Ministers of State will accept amendments in the Seanad. I have provided an example of how I, as a relatively young Minister of State for health, could listen to the points being made and...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: -----to be the President. I listened to them. I expressed some disquiet at the use of the term "illegitimate" and stated: I, too, consider this an unacceptable terminology. I appreciate the Senators' concern. I share their desire to avoid the use of this term, particularly following the recent enactment of the Status of Children Act. However, there is a difficulty in relation to the...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: Otherwise, he would not be where he is now. I went the other way. I was a Deputy first, joining the Dáil in 1977, but it took me three attempts to join the Seanad. People claim that it is easy to enter this House because one only needs a few votes.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: One could get the equivalent of 51,000 votes at a count. I tried in 1992 and 1997 and succeeded in 2002. It took effort. My first time walking through the doors of Leinster House was in 1977. I want to be clear - entering the Seanad is a difficult task. It is difficult to get elected from the university panel, where the numbers are high and tremendous people have been elected. On our...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: It is relevant. Section 1 relates to the question of how the House-----

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: -----is linked to our current situation. I am showing why I will vote against section 1. I will vote if I cannot get out of here soon.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: I have a commitment as well. My dear aunt, Mary Maloney Leyden, died in Multyfarnham in Mullingar and I must attend the funeral tomorrow. She was a great friend of mine, but these things happen. I was explaining to the Minister of State's colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, about the wonderful work done in the report on Seanad reform. The select committee was chaired by a...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: It is the Report on Seanad Reform by the Sub-Committee on Seanad Reform of Seanad Éireann's Committee on Procedure and Privileges. It is important that this document's foreword should be on the record of the House because it will show exactly what could have happened. It states:In broad terms, our recommendations involve new ways to choose Senators that involve the public much more...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: Was there?

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: Senator Norris might be able to elaborate on that as he was aware of it.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: I am sorry.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: I made no such promise.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: Negative on both counts - neither short nor sweet.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: I appreciate that. If I were in the Leas-Chathaoirleach's position I would be very fair as well. However, the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes - the new Lord Castlereagh - authored a report on Seanad reform. There is a portrait of Viscount Castlereagh in the Linenhall Library in Belfast, and he looks like Deputy Brian Hayes. There is a marked resemblance between them, which is...

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: I would be pleased if the Minister of State could respond afterwards. Does he intend to respond to the debate?

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: Not yet.

Seanad: An Bille um an Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a Chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: Céim an Choiste (Atógáil) - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (10 Jul 2013)

Terry Leyden: No. I would like to get his response.

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