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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: However, prior to the privatisation of the national lottery, there was always advertising and marketing. The national lottery was always one of the most recognisable brands in Irish society. The difficulty now is that when prizes are unclaimed, 98% of that money is used for this purpose now. The irony of it is that that marketing then implies that 90% of all expenditure that customers make...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: I am aware of that. In a nutshell, what I am asking is why Ms Boate does not make any recommendation on this. She clearly accepts that there is no difficulty with 98% of this money going into an advertising budget. Is that so?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Let me clarify again. The regulator produces an annual report. As the regulator, Ms Boate is entitled in her annual report to highlight potential deficiencies within the legislation. We are dealing with a situation that we know about purely because the Comptroller and Auditor General did Ms Boate's job and highlighted to us that there was what I would consider a scandalous anomaly whereby...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Ms Boate did that through a freedom of information request.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: A freedom of information request involves somebody seeking information that has not been made publicly available. Ms Boate therefore did not make the information publicly available; she was forced to do so.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Let me ask Ms Boate this. Had the regulator not released that information under the Freedom of Information Act, would it have been in breach of that law?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: The regulator has therefore made the information available because it was obliged to do so.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: It did not make it available because it decided that this was something the public needed to know.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: It is therefore not thanks to Ms Boate that we know this; it is thanks to the people who made the freedom of information request.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Somebody has the-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Would the regulator have been in breach of the licence were it actually to provide the information the Comptroller and Auditor General provided us-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: -----that only 2% was going back?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: That would have been in breach of the licence.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Would Ms Boate not have ever considered that that is a problem in terms of public disclosure? The regulator is frustrated, under Ms Boate's reading of the legislation. Would she not have highlighted that in an annual report to say it is something that needs to change because the public have a right to know this information and she feels precluded from providing it?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: With all due respect, I am still trying to figure out what exactly Ms Boate's job is and what is the regulator's role. We have learned that the regulator does not issue directives and publishes information if it is in line with the freedom of information request. There are elements of the legislation that prevent the regulator from publishing what I would consider to be information that is...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: The regulator has never sought new powers. All of what Ms Boate has just said is just her reading out her terms of reference. I have missed some of this meeting but to my mind and in any of the interactions I have seen, Ms Boate has not set out in any meaningful way how the regulator actually protects consumers and takes proactive measures to ensure the reputation of the lottery system...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: That is not what I am asking. It is with regard to the management and procedure and whether or not the mechanisms being used are actually fair. That did not happen.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Yes. It was the national lottery itself that announced there would be a must-win draw or draws in order to-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: -----end the cycle.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: I am not talking about the practicalities of drawing the balls out of the drum.

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