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Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: I welcome Ms Kerins and her colleagues. I have the RehabCare accounts for 2012. The total income is €44 million, so it would appear that well in excess of 90% of RehabCare's income comes from the HSE. Am I right?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Well in excess of 90% of the income of RehabCare comes directly from the taxpayer.

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Can Ms Keane understand why the Committee of Public Accounts, when talking to an organisation 98% of whose total income comes directly from the taxpayer, feels entitled to have full access to the information?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: I understand all that. I look at the Rehab Group in totoand I believe it has a turnover somewhere in the region of €180 million, of which approximately €80 million, or 40%, comes from the Irish taxpayer. Less than half of the income of the group comes from the Irish taxpayer. I can understand why an organisation might make the case, when the majority of its funding does not...

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: I understand that. I would like to put something to Mr. O'Brien and the HSE, which has been giving RehabCare 98% of its funding each year. As a member of the Committee of Public Accounts, I would have hoped that Mr. O'Brien, as the HSE's Accounting Officer, would have had a far greater handle on the activities of an organisation that gets 98% of its money from the HSE. However, it seems...

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. O'Brien in a position to say to us that the organisations he has just mentioned are in line with Government pay policy?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: It does not strictly apply to them. I would like to ask about the review the HSE is doing. Mr. O'Brien said earlier this morning that the HSE is dealing in the first instance with organisations that receive in excess of €5 million and hopes to have a report on those organisations by the end of March. How many such organisations are there? Can Mr. O'Brien list them? Is there a...

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: A list of the organisations is available.

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Almost 12 months have passed since the compilation of the internal audit report on the section 38 organisations. All the HSE can confirm is that just ten of the approximately 40 organisations or agencies are fully compliant. Most of them have made a business case at this stage, but just ten of them have been accepted by the HSE as being fully compliant. That happened after confirmation was...

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: My final question relates to the NLN and to SOLAS. Approximately how much money goes to the NLN from SOLAS?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: What proportion of the network's total funding is that?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: SOLAS is carrying out a similar exercise to that being carried out by the HSE. As we have established, they are not public servants. What kind of check is SOLAS doing, given that two thirds of all payments in that organisation are funded by the State?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: How does that capitation fee compare with the capitation fees that SOLAS pays to other organisations? Is there a set fee for all organisations, or does it vary from organisation to organisation?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Would SOLAS be able to send the committee a list of all the organisations that receive more than €1 million per annum?

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Maybe SOLAS can give us the full list.

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: I appreciate Ms Keane's correcting my comment. Although I said Rehab was almost a public entity, I did not suggest it was. Having looked at the figures, I will compliment it because everybody has been having a go at the salaries paid in the organisation. Based on the audited accounts for RehabCare in the year under review, staff costs, including PRSI and pensions, were €33.53...

Public Accounts Committee: Payments to Section 39 Companies: Discussion (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: I understand.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 1: In page 3, between lines 11 and 12, to insert the following: “2. Within 30 days of the commencement of this Act the Minister shall, by way of regulation, introduce a provision whereby the parliamentary activities allowance payable to the leader of a qualifying party shall be paid to that qualifying party.”.If the Minister listens to my reason for this...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: I understand what the Minister is saying. However, accounting officers operate in every area of the civil and public service. In that context, cheques that are presented to Departments, for example, are not made out to the accounting officer. I am sure cheques from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform in respect of the Estimates are addressed to the other individual Departments...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Yes, I actually have experience.

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