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Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: That is my recollection of it. Unfortunately, the certification from HomeBond was not worth the paper it was written on as regards pyrite. That is the issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: We are over time. I will let Deputy Devlin back in again.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: To follow on from yesterday's meeting, I wish to mention a couple of public private partnership contracts that we are tied into at a cost of €631 million. Yesterday, I said that I would revisit some questions on this matter because, in fairness to Ms Ryan, we asked a lot of questions about figures. How many units will be delivered for €631 million? What is the annual payment?...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Just keep it simple as I am watching the time. How many units will be delivered for €631 million? I understand that there are two bundles.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: How many homes?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: What is the annual payment? There is a figure of €631 million but I am unclear about how that is broken down in terms of how much is spent per annum. I ask because I want us to get value for money. I can come back to this matter, if the witnesses so wish.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: There has been a substantial spend so the Secretary General can understand where I am coming from.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: What period does €631 million cover? Ms Ryan has clarified that €631 million covers just under 1,000 homes. In terms of today's business, the pyrite remediation scheme on Old Knockmay Road was very good but painfully slow. The Part VIII process has received a lot of criticism but I know that, in general, a Part VIII can be dealt with in a matter of weeks, in other words,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I want the Department to go a step further. Why not use the same design on each site? There are different types of housing such as terraced, semi-detached and stand-alone rural cottages. Surely we could have a standardised design for the different types and sizes of homes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: To save time and money the process needs to be streamlined in terms of greater standardisation. On the lag, while some of the sites were in areas where demand collapsed that demand how now increased. I could name a few sites but I will not waste the time of the committee. Borris-in-Ossory is one example where the situation has changed in the oast four or five years. It changed from high...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: It has to go further down the country.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: We have to go beyond the Pale with this because this is a real issue. The real problem arising in more rural counties, such as counties Laois or Offaly, is that the threshold for social housing is very low. It starts at €480. It is €506 for a couple. Once a person's income is more than €506 he or she cannot get on a local authority housing waiting list and we do not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: There is that cohort, the working poor, and it is a big middle. We often talk about the squeezed middle but this is actually quite a wide middle who are completely excluded from either social housing or being able to buy a house.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: We need to start addressing that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I will ask the witness to come back to the Deputy on those issues because we are under time constraint in terms of the health regulations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: There is vacant land in the Deputy's area to be developed. That is some good news.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: In regard to HomeBond, the overall cost is estimated at €210 million for the pyrite remediation scheme. HomeBond will finish up paying only a small percentage of that. The only amount received to date is €52,000. The overall cost or hit to the State is €210 million - that was the insurance cost. A "yes" or "no" answer will do to this. My recollection is that the type...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I have a follow-on question. Are homeowners and purchasers still relying on HomeBond? Is it the same outfit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Does it cover pyrite and all other eventualities? Is the Housing Agency confident that the insurance provides adequate cover for homeowners and the taxpayer? The taxpayers had to go in and remediate a significant number of dodgy apartments and so on. Pyrite has been a major problem. Does Mr. O'Connor believe the taxpayer and home-purchasers are now adequately protected under the new terms?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government (Resumed)
Chapter 11 - Social Housing
Chapter 12 - Land Aggregation Scheme.
Chapter 13 - Pyrite Remediation Scheme.
(26 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: That is the key issue here. We have been left with an appalling mess with pyrite. There were 29 applications from County Offaly. I presume they were all valid applications. How many of these are still outstanding? They are mainly from the Edenderry area.

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