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Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: There is an issue with a local authority house purchased under the tenant purchase scheme, then sold and bought by a private landlord and rented. I raised this issue when I was a councillor. The house is built by the local authority with taxpayer money. A tenant lives in it for 30 to 40 years and then buys it out under a tenant purchase scheme. The house might subsequently be bought by an...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: At the end of the 25 years-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: The majority of leases do not come into the ownership of the local authority.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: That is to keep them off balance sheet. The problem is that it is a lot of money going down a big hole. Up to €2,300 a month to rent an apartment is an astronomical spend, even in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown. In terms of social housing delivery, I am in favour of the integration of social housing with private. I have argued for it over the years. When I was chair of my local...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: There is the problem. With regard to the issue of turnkey acquisitions, is the Department examining the excessive costs in this area? In some areas, particularly urban areas, the cost of such acquisitions can be twice that of building accommodation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: A Department of Public Expenditure and Reform report highlighted the fact that building or buying accommodation is better than the myriad of long-term schemes we have with regard to value for money over time. According to this report, better value would be achieved through building and buying accommodation, even over the medium term.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I am not arguing against it. I have seen good value achieved through turnkey acquisition.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: In some cases and in some areas, however, the cost can seem excessive. That is the point I am making. There is a slice of the overall Government budget allocated for housing and we have to try to get as much out of it as we can. That is the point I am making.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I must caution the Deputy for commenting on a body outside of the Houses.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I have to ask the Deputy to desist from describing something as "illegal" outside-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I will ask for that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy’s time is up now and I call Deputy Devlin.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Before we finish up, on the question of public-private partnerships, PPPs, and the information the Department has supplied to us, to date, there are two bundles of PPPs entered into for a total cost and commitment of €631 million. Are those PPPs for a 25-year period? Over what period of time does the €631 million accumulate and how much is the annual payment and the number of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Could the witnesses come back to us with that information tomorrow, please?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: The payment and availability scheme is available to approved housing bodies. Is it available to private developers?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Some 80% to 85% of the market rent is paid by the local authority.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Yes, it depends on whether it is a house or an apartment. I will check on that for the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: Does the approved housing body also get a differential rent?

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: This puts the local authority which is trying to operate alongside these units on the same estate in a very difficult situation. I am not arguing against the approved housing bodies, many of which are doing very good work, but they are in a financially healthier situation where they have 80% or 85% of the market rent, plus the differential rent scheme that the council would receive from a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government.
Local Government Fund
Chapter 2 – Central Government Funding of Local Authorities.
(25 Nov 2020)

Brian Stanley: I understand that. They have to service the finance and the property.

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