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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: Yes. He or she can check work but does not have responsibility for compliance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: If there are specifics that I leave out, Mr. Loftus will fill them in for me. Senator Ruane raised a number of practical scenarios, such as a child being locked into a bathroom. This would become an issue if there were a fire. That is where people's concerns are. The standard of the building is paramount. I have been picking up bits of anecdotal information from public representatives...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I take that point. We tried to ensure this committee was kept informed. That was at one level.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I take Deputy Coppinger's point. For an individual Deputy in whose areas the schools are, information is key. I suppose we were in the situation of trying to sort out the two main issues of safety and getting children back to school. I apologise if there were any deficits in information in that regard. Deputy Funchion-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: There were updates on the Department website each day. There were 42 schools. I am not saying it affected 42 constituencies but it impacted on approximately 30. That will give the committee a sense of the magnitude. Councillors were ringing the Department. Concerned citizens were ringing me. A former principal in Tyrrelstown was ringing me. Everybody was trying to give their help....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: They were happy to come together, as were the construction companies which had to do the temporary work. The construction companies mobilised 250 workers over a long weekend. They felt there was a duty on their part to come forward and try to address this situation as well. Deputy Funchion also asked about minor works for primary schools and summer works. We will be in a position to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I am determined to get to the bottom of this. I am determined to find out who is culpable and where the responsibility lies. Obviously that will be a job for my legal team, the team in the Chief State Solicitor's Office, CSSO, and the Attorney General. The 2014 regulations are very clear that the sanctions are not just fines; they also include imprisonment. There must be culpability and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: School Closures: Discussion with Minister for Education and Skills (6 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I shall first respond to Deputy Boyd Barrett. He raised a lot of issues and made a number of allegations. His comments highlight the fact that questions need to be answered. However, people need to be in a position to defend themselves. The Deputy mentioned whistleblowers. I would be interested in hearing any information or seeing any evidence anyone might have. Accountability was...

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghabháil le mo chomhghleacaithe as ucht seans labhairt i dtaobh imní atá ar na daoine sna scoilenna i gceist agus i dtaobh an ábhair iontaigh thábhachtaigh seo. I appreciate the opportunity to update the Dáil on the structural assessments that were undertaken at 42 schools constructed by Western Building Systems and the next steps...

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: No, I do not agree there was a cover-up. An intensive assessment of 55 schools was begun in quarter 4, 2017. Last August, a team and plan were put in place to ensure the opening of works, which happened two weeks ago. Before that, assessments were also done in 2014. Fire defects, however, must be separated from the structural defects that were found in the past fortnight.

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: There is a clerk of works from the Department on every major project. Obviously, there are different summer work schemes of perhaps one or two classrooms where there is no clerk of works, but on major extensions and major capital programmes, there is a clerk of works on every one of them.

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: On the question about the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, there has not been an assessment of costs for the past fortnight's work and some of the work is ongoing this morning. As soon as we receive it, we will look for the costs to be recovered. The significant cost will emerge next year and, therefore, I do not expect the Department to seek additional money through the...

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: There was a mobilisation of the team in the last fortnight. Over the bank holiday weekend people from different parts of the Department came together in Tullamore. Thirty staff members, from a total Department staff of 1,300, were working on this interim accommodation measure to find solutions for assessment. In the last fortnight there was a deployment of staff. Obviously, this has had...

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: According to the information I have, no alert whatsoever was received of any structural issue in any of the schools.

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I need to separate the two elements. In the case of schools where internal and external works are needed such as in the two schools in Tyrrelstown and the school in Lucan, internal works are now complete on the ground floor and we are looking to do the first and second floors in the next few weeks. We are looking to get the students back into their school campuses in the coming weeks. In...

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I have made no contact with the local authorities. As the Deputy has rightly pointed out, the local authority building control units have a role in this regard. It is important to get their input into any review of the design and build process. I will be happy to encourage it.

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I thank the Deputy for his questions. I appreciate that there are difficulties in a number of schools in his constituency. I will begin by providing clarification on certification of compliance. Unlike the Deputy, I have never been involved in major works on building sites, although I did a bit of hod carrying in my day. I remember that there was a need for vigilance, oversight and...

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: I am committing to initiating a programme-led inquiry specifically to examine design, build and operate projects. It has to be independent. The Minister for Health Deputy Simon Harris, appointed an international expert to inquire into CervicalCheck. I am open to suggestions from this House regarding the design of the inquiry to ensure we address culpability and accountability and, first...

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: The Deputy made a series of observations and asked some questions, to which I will try to respond as best I can. To be clear, it was the role of the clerk of works that I was talking about yesterday at the meeting of the joint committee. That role is to give additional oversight. If the clerk of works sees something that indicates safety is not being done right, he or she has a...

Structural Assessments of Schools: Statements (7 Nov 2018)

Joe McHugh: The Deputy has raised a number of very important points. When one speaks to people in the building trade and at a wider level it is clear that smaller companies feel that they are precluded from tendering for contracts, even when they have a proven track record, because of the turnover threshold . I am on public record on that issue, and I certainly agree that it is an issue that should be...

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