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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Will they remain that way?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: As we look at the figures for taxis and hospitality and so on, is each and every one of those figures down to the president or is it the president's cost centre?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Can Dr. Neavyn give an estimate of the legal costs in relation to the claim for in excess of €100,000?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Have the solicitors representing him not indicated a figure?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: I will now direct questions to Mr. Boland. Looking back on the matter and the various reports on it, and that what was going on was not uncovered by the HEA, does the authority have questions to answer on governance issues?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Should the HEA not have looked into the activities of the institute? Given its very public profile and the creation of these companies, is Mr. Boland saying that in general terms of governance and accountability, none of this came to the attention of the HEA?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: To what is Mr. Boland saying "yes"?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: If that had not happened, the institute would have gone merrily along the way it had been going. The HEA would not have known about it.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Does Mr. Ó Foghlú think it is credible that all of this went on under the public gaze, that the structures were known to all and sundry and yet the HEA, overseeing the institute, did not know and, as a result, we are dealing with this loss of money to the State? I find that incredible.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: I read in some of these papers that the president's term was at an end and that he had to be reappointed. His reappointment was recommended following an interview process. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Dr. Neavyn might check that again to see if anybody informed the president. I would like to know the procedure. Did anybody speak to Dr. Bryne in this period?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: What does Mr. Nolan think?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: What about the cascade of responsibility from the Department of Finance? Did departmental officials not look in at the Department of Education and Skills and the HEA to see where the dog was barking and what was going on?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: However, in this instance, the oversight of the Department and the HEA did not uncover anything.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform allocates the money to the Department of Education and Skills. I do not expect it to go down layers. The Department of Education and Skills allocates the money to the HEA. It is not expected to go down layers, but I would expect Mr. Nolan's Department at least to have a report from the Department of Education and Skills. I would expect that...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: Essentially we were closing the gate when the horses were gone. Let us be honest; that is what happened. The Department introduced the guidelines later on, but the existing guidelines were completely ignored between two different Departments, the HEA and down in Waterford.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: I thank Mr. McCarthy. Is it agreed to dispose of the Comptroller and Auditor General’s special report No. 78, matters arising out of education audits?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 78 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Matters Arising out of Education Audits (Resumed) (10 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: We will examine most of the evidence separately at another meeting. Is it agreed to dispose of the Comptroller and Auditor General’s special report No. 78? Agreed. I thank the witnesses for attending this meeting.

Written Answers — Department of Social Protection: Disability Allowance Appeals (15 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: 137. To ask the Minister for Social Protection if an appeal for disability allowance will be expedited in respect of a person (details supplied) in County Kilkenny. [43182/13]

Written Answers — Department of Social Protection: Domiciliary Care Allowance Applications (15 Oct 2013)

John McGuinness: 176. To ask the Minister for Social Protection if domiciliary care allowance will be approved in respect of a person (details supplied) in County Kilkenny. [43571/13]

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