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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: As the Minister is aware, I have challenged the Government consistently on this issue in the past year or two and the very least it could do is accede to a request to provide the analysis and assessment Deputy Doherty has suggested in order that we can have the hard evidence before us and the public. That would allow them make their own judgments on this issue. There is considerable...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I welcome the fact that we are having this discussion. However, the point is that it needs to develop and get beyond the assertion of different positions which at present do not agree. There are different starting points, but I am glad the Minister of State wants more from them because I want more. I say upfront that these guys should pay more.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Let us be honest, every other group in Irish society has been scrutinised intensely over the past four or five years to extract more. Rightly or wrongly, that is what has happened. The same level of scrutiny needs to be applied to these corporations. Broadly speaking, the question I want answered, on which I got some information but which has not really been answered, relates to that big...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I want to know how they write it off.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I want each one of those categories examined. I want to see how it is enforced. I want to see the criteria through which they qualify for those allowances. I want to see if there are possible ways in which they are abusing those categories in order to reduce their tax liability. I want an explanation as to why what is known as the implicit rate in the EUROSTAT figures is considerably...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I think they do. Those tables were extremely detailed. They showed GDP, amounts of tax paid, and everything. Those are extremely detailed tables. They showed corporate taxes paid. It had figures for these matters and it gave implicit rates. It was self-evident, unless it was an extraordinary co-incidence, that the €6.5 billion EUROSTAT had as an implicit rate for Ireland happened...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It would be desirable to explain in the report, whose production I would welcome, the comparisons between the implicit rates in various countries in Europe. I do not fully understand-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: The Minister of State is saying the gap between the €70 billion and the €40 billion is explained by reference to the three outlined categories and that the write-offs are fully legitimate because they pertain to capital allowances or royalties, for example, and are in accordance with international standards. I do not understand how our implicit figure is so low compared with...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I believe we need to drill into that.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I agree with many of the Chairman's comments.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: We flew through section 36-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I am allowed, within Standing Orders, to signal a matter for Report Stage.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It is relevant to this discussion, and that prompted me to think about it. I have concerns about real estate investment trusts similar to the ones expressed about this. I will return to that on Report Stage. I worry that we are going down that road. While they are at the bottom and it might be the real price, the people who have money are buying up at the bottom of the market and...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I signal a possible Report Stage amendment to section 42.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I wish to make a point. I could not let that slip. If VAT is imposed on the-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It concerns the exemption currently applying to local authorities.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: This is to fend off the possibility that there may not be a level playing field in the provision of water or concerns about EU rules about competition-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I get that point. The Minister of State may be aware of one of the points I made earlier-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: EU competition rules require a level playing field once a body begins to charge for a service. If VAT is applied on one service and not on another, it could be considered unfair competition, and consequently full market rules could start to apply. This would lead inevitably to privatisation. Do I take it that the provision aims to fend off the possibility as well as the Minister's...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (27 Nov 2013)

Richard Boyd Barrett: If we did not do this, would the Government have the problem I mentioned?

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