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Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I thank the Senators who contributed on this amendment. Under section 5, it is an offence to traffick an adult for the purpose of sexual exploitation. Both "sexual exploitation" and "trafficks" are defined in section 2. The definition of "trafficks" includes taking custody of a trafficked person or taking a trafficked person into one's care or charge or under one's control. It also...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: Yes, in general, because control would be involved but I will refer to that on Report Stage.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: Based on the brief I have been given, I am not certain that the issue in question is covered from the perspective of Senator Mullen's amendment. If a gap is identified, I will have it investigated before Report Stage. I am not clear at this point whether the Senator's amendment addresses the issue he raised but I will ensure it is adequately addressed if it is not already provided for.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: One of Senator Joe O'Toole's final points asked if there is an offence with regard to the client. The Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993 makes it an offence to solicit in public for the purposes of sex. The prostitute, client, pimp or other third party can commit the offence. If Senators have an opportunity to refer to the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993, there are a number of...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I did, I mentioned a client.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: To clarify for Senator O'Toole, the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993 makes it an offence to solicit in public for purposes of sex. The prostitute, client, pimp or other third party can commit the offence.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I understand that. I emphasised the provision was in public. That is the provision of the 1993 Act. Senator O'Toole asked if there was a provision for the client to commit an offence. That provision exists in the 1993 Act.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I said "in public". That provision exists. Different sections of the 1993 Act refer to soliciting or importuning for purposes of prostitution, loitering for purposes of prostitution, organisation of prostitution, living on earnings of prostitution and brothel keeping. There are other aspects as well but they were the first few I could point out that are relevant to some of the issues that...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I will refer to it in a moment. She states that no one knows if there are fewer prostitutes. That is not surprising as the law could only serve to drive prostitution underground. It has been said that some of the neighbouring countries complain about an increase in the demand for prostitutes in there. The question is extremely complex. One former prostitute is quoted as saying that...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I referred the Senator to the 1993 Act from which he has quoted in answer to the question he raised, that a client could not be convicted. The Act refers clearly to the fact that a client soliciting in public can be convicted and the Senator has read out the section dealing with that. I did not say this Act dealt with all the issues that Senator Mullen raised. I quoted the lines Senator...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: It can be any of the three, the client——

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: ——the prostitute, the pimp or a third party. That is contained in the provisions in the Bill which the Senator will see if he has an opportunity to go through them again.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: No it can mean the person seeking to purchase as well.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: It was dealt with earlier.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: In response to Senator Mullen's comments on my introducing the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993 as a red herring, I referred to that Act in response to the question raised by Senator O'Toole. It was not introduced as a red herring but merely referred to in answering the Senator's question. I outlined the experience in this regard in Sweden. Senator Mullen doubts the existence of...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: Her name, and I hope I pronounce it correctly in my best Cavan accent, is Petra Östergren. She is quoted as having said that, "no one knows if there are fewer prostitutes". A former prostitute, whom I will not name, is quoted as having said, "underground profiteers, pimps and traffickers flourish and we would rather avoid them". That relates to the Swedish experience. To my knowledge...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: I do not know if it was implemented.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: One of the British Home Office Ministers visited Sweden some time ago to study the impact of sex laws it had introduced. That trip was part of a six month review of British policy on prostitution. We all share a desire to deal with this evil issue. However, it is not an issue with which we will deal in this Bill, rather it is one on which widespread consultation is required.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: We need to get such legislation right. I referred to the British example, as Senator Mullen referred to Britain as being our near neighbour. Britain is involved in a consultation process. I am speaking in a personal capacity in stating that the issue of prostitution in the context of widening and improving our laws has not been discussed in government since I took office. We want to...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Bill 2007: Committee Stage. (26 Feb 2008)

Brendan Smith: Senator O'Toole asked about public places, which is defined in the introduction to the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993. Senator Mullen thought I did not refer to the Swedish Government. I did of course. I referred to the Swedish Government before I referred to the commentary of the anthropologist. The Swedish Government estimates that the number of prostitutes in Sweden has dropped...

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