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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: The existing sections will be subsumed into the Bill.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Amendments Nos. 45 and 46 are alternatives to amendment No. 44. Therefore, amendments Nos. 44 to 46, inclusive, will be discussed together. If amendment No. 44 is agreed to, amendments Nos. 45 and 46 cannot be moved.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: It is coming up to 6 p.m. and on the basis that we might try to complete the Bill this evening, I propose that we take a 35 minute break on completion of section 17. Once we move beyond section 17, there are some matters that will require time and I would like to take them together. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly is learning. He has just received an IT lesson and has a question.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: A database is designed to extract information; therefore, if a question is submitted, it should be extractable. If there is a difficulty with extracting information from a database, there are questions about the viability of the database.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Is "fall to be granted" correct rather than "fail to be granted"?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: I take it that what will be the case with amendment No. 53 will also apply to amendment No. 33, in a reformatted sense, as indicated earlier.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Is the cap of €500 inclusive of the €15?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: It could be €515 in total.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: Excuse me; I ask Deputies to comment through the Chair. They can have their own conversation outside the meeting.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: The Minister could give us a list of State services to which a charge already applies and to which citizens have an entitlement. Citizens pay for birth certificates, planning applications and passports; these are some things to which an Irish citizen is entitled. Perhaps the Minster can provide a list.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: This is something we dealt with during the consultation process. If the information is held in an Excel document, the difficulty in issuing an Excel document is that it is open to further manipulation. Someone can insert new figures into an Excel document and it can be transferred onwards. The concern raised is that if information is provided in electronic format it should be issued in a...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: The Minister has said he will look at it. I think Deputy Fleming has a win there, so let us move on.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: We are moving into the realm of repetition.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: I am trying to be fair here. The Minister has indicated that the-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: The Minister has indicated that the amendment is being withdrawn. There are other Members who wish to contribute to this debate. We can stay here until midnight, I do not mind, but I will be much stricter about repetition. If I am hearing the same argument being repeated over and over, I will intervene. That is not to say Members do not have something valuable to say, but if they are...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: I am sorry but I must intervene now. I ask Deputy Boyd Barrett to cite the section of the amendment to which he is speaking. We can have a conversation on the report of the committee, a conversation about the NUJ and so forth and we can have further arguments on this issue but I am going to be strict about the rules from now on. I am now asking Members to refer specifically to the part of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: In general, we deal with the broader points when discussing the section itself.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: If the Deputy wants to be pedantic-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Ciarán Lynch: -----I can take a pedantic position too. Then we will not have a functioning committee. I am asking people to operate within the procedures laid down. The amendments are being withdrawn. The Minister has indicated that any revised amendments will be given to the committee in advance. There will be plenty of scope for engagement on that and Members can enter into correspondence with the...

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