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Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: How is it out of order? Surely, if I am making a proposal, the amendments will be dealt with together?

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: Amendment No. 26 deals with the same matter. I propose that it be dealt with at the same time as amendments Nos. 7 and 9. I have something to say about amendment No. 10 being out of order but I accept what the Acting Chair is saying.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: Yes. It is consequential to the decision on amendments Nos. 7 and 9.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: Amendment No. 19 can be dealt with as well.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: Senator Currie and I tabled an amendment, No. 9, which is on the same lines as this. As my colleague has outlined, in the original iteration of the legislation, there was a provision to allow the IHREC, an important State body with important functions, to be involved in the decisions of the commission about who would be proposed to Government for appointment. It was originally included...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: This amendment is absolutely and utterly misguided. It preposterously presupposes that it is appropriate for this House to rush headlong, as it has done in lots of other legislation, towards excluding former Members from any kind of operation after they leave this House. Oftentimes, in fact perhaps most of the time, people leave this or the other House without very much notice and find...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: There are different units of time for each of them - absolutely. It is two years for Deputies and Senators, five years for a member of the Government, five years for the Attorney General and five years for somebody who served at the Secretary General level in a Department of the Government. The notion that that somehow debars people from the appropriateness of serving in judicial office is...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I apologise if I misunderstood what the Senator said in terms of cross-contamination. I thought she had used that term. I absolutely agree with her in terms of what she said about local authority members. In fact, if one looks at any State board, for example, one of the things that will more often than not debar a person from membership is membership of local authority. That is another...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I move amendment No. 15: In page 12, to delete lines 4 to 12. Section 15 deals with the nomination of members of the Judicial Council and their appointment as members of the commission. The section 12 provisions provide for the appointment, essentially of judges, to the proposed judicial appointments commission. There are three amendments in the group. Amendment No. 15 deals with...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I thank the Minister of State for his response. I do not agree that there needs to be clarity about what we are asking the council to do. It is being asked to appoint two people. I do not believe any clarity beyond that is required. I reiterate the point I made earlier on the previous experience issue: the reality is that you just have judges; you do not have judges for former solicitors...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I move amendment No. 16: In page 12, to delete lines 16 to 22.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I move amendment No. 17: In page 12, to delete lines 27 to 34 and substitute the following: "judge to replace him or her.".

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Second Stage (Resumed) (25 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I move amendment No. 19: In page 13, to delete lines 17 to 23 and substitute the following: "(4) The matters referred to in subsection (3) are matters connected with— (a) the courts and the operation of the justice system both in the State and in places outside the State, (b) the importance of protection of human rights and equality, (c) business, finance or public service, and...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (26 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I appreciate what the Minister has said. I understand, given that there have been no amendments made in this House, that there may be a concern that if an amendment were to be accepted here, it would cause the Bill to go back to the Dáil. I know the Minister does not think that is the only reason we would not accept amendments. I understand the rationale behind the decision not to...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (26 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I move amendment No. 27: In page 13, line 24, to delete “shall” and substitute “may”.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (26 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I move amendment No. 28: In page 13, lines 24 and 25, to delete all words from and including “lay” in line 24 down to and including line 25 and substitute the following: “lay members from among the persons recommended by the Public Appointments Service under subsection (2), or such other lay member as the Minister deems suitable, and where the Minister appoints a...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (26 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I agree with Senator McDowell. I understand where the reference to the Equal Status Act comes from. However, the Equal Status Act is there for the purpose of enforcing rights and creates categories in which litigation can be conducted to protect people in those categories. Broadly speaking in the context of this amendment while it is important to recognise that, of course, the Judiciary...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (26 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: This section is a very important recognition of the non-application of the Freedom of Information Act as I understand it. This issue will come up in one of my subsequent amendments. It is very important to maintain the confidentiality of those who may apply for judicial office. If that is applied, a whole raft of people, who would certainly be qualified and who might make excellent judges,...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (26 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: I do not agree with the amendment. I understand where Senator McDowell is coming from but I feel he has created a very forced scenario, which he has reinforced by suggesting there will somehow be a judicial veto. I do not think that is the case, which is why the Minister has strived to have a small commission with a balance between judicial and lay figures. Senator McDowell has put this...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2022: Committee Stage (Resumed) (26 Oct 2022)

Barry Ward: Constitutionally, absolutely, but the suggestion was that we should not fetter the Government, while in fact we should. The Senator is right that constitutionally there is a trump card there but as legislators, it should be our job to put in place legislation that fetters, controls or manipulates the powers of the Government. That is why so much of what Ministers do must come back to these...

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