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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: Does Mr. McKeon not have them to hand?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: Why does Mr. McKeon not have them to hand?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: Yes, but Mr. McKeon spoke about it in his opening statement and it is an important issue. As I said, the Department does not really have any idea of the extent of the loss to the State.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: Mr. McKeon's figures state otherwise. He has said-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: I am looking for the figures.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: That is based on the Department's level of investigation and the fact the Department is understaffed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: When Mr. McKeon is talking about targeting sectors, there is the courier sector, meat processing, journalism and lots of different areas. There seems to be a reluctance on the part of the Department to go in. I think Mr. McKeon said employers would find it very intrusive. Surely the nature of any investigation is to be intrusive? Given that we do not know the extent of the loss to the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: That was a limited investigation, in fairness.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: Yes, but Mr. McKeon will accept the perception is that those investigations have been somewhat limited and maybe a more thorough investigation would give a broader picture. Mr. McKeon said it would result in 15,000 investigations per year. We could look at that from another angle and say if that 15,000 turned up 15,000 misclassifications and multiply that by the loss to the State and the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: Yes, but the fact is Mr. McKeon does not know until the Department carries out those investigations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: I am going to move on because-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: That is based on the Department's limited investigations thus far.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: They are limited to particular sectors but there are lots of other sectors the Department has not touched yet.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: I want to move on. The Central Statistics Office, CSO, gives a figure of 11.6% of the population, or over 500,000 people, as living below the poverty line. The Department of Social Protection is responsible for the social safety net, if you like. Does Mr. McKeon think those figures are acceptable?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: If we could get just a "Yes" or "No" answer. It is a straightforward question. Does Mr. McKeon think those figures are acceptable?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: It is unacceptable, okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: I just want to ask-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: Mr. McKeon is content enough with it when he compares with other EU countries.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: As the Department responsible for the social safety net, does Mr. McKeon think it acceptable that in a small country like ours there are over 500,000 people living below the poverty line?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Imelda Munster: Okay, if Mr. McKeon is not going to answer, that is all right.

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