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Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: I welcome the witnesses. Can Mr Nugent clarify the proportion of his overall funding the €16.182 million grant from the HSE represents?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: Can Mr Nugent not be more exact?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: What is the overall income stream?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: Can Mr Nugent clarify the moneys raised by the Friends and Supporters of the Central Remedial Clinic on an annual basis?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: I will accept an average.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: Is that raised through lotteries?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. Kiely was not unique in the organisation in receiving a top-up. Mr. O'Brien very helpfully gave us some figures and, on a rough calculation, it appears the CRC was supplementing or topping up salaries to the tune of €280,000 per annum. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: Okay. I thank Mr. Kiely for that but none the less, there are 278 posts. I do not want to quibble about it.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: Will Mr. Nugent or Mr. Kiely describe the categories of staff that encompasses?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: I thank Mr. Kiely. Is that not the fabric of the Central Remedial Clinic? They are the people who so excellently and in such a dedicated fashion care for people with disabilities. Their record speaks for itself and their public reputation has been outstanding, and remains so. Would Mr. Kiely not agree?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: Curiously enough, they are also people who were never considered for additional payments or top-ups - do not mind the vocabulary - from the clinic. Is that not an interesting thing? I will tell the witnesses why I raise it and why it struck me so forcibly. I read a letter from Mr. Nugent to Mr. Leo Kinsella, regional director of operations, HSE Dublin north east, dated 19 July 2013. Ms...

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: I think everybody would applaud those. Mr. Nugent indicated to me that the average charitable income garnered through charity and the lottery is approximately €1.5 million per annum.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: I put it to Mr. Nugent that the total top-up bill per annum was working out at €280,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: That is a very substantial portion of the moneys raised through the generosity of people and public confidence in the clinic.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: I do not understand.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am very conversant with the FEMPI legislation, which was not simply aimed at people at the upper scales. FEMPI hit people in public service grades across the board like a hammer-----

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: -----including people on very low salaries.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. Nugent started to tell me about the salaries. Is he telling me that there was a cohort of the 278 whole-time equivalent posts, in the case of teachers, nursing staff, carers, and clerical people, who were in line with public sector pay, HSE guidelines and so on? Is that what Mr. Nugent telling me? The issue did not arise with these people.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. Nugent already said that.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Mary Lou McDonald: So what happened in the Central Remedial Clinic is that the vast majority - it is worth saying this in this forum - of the staff were fully in line, fully compliant with public sector pay policy. They took the belt of the FEMPI legislation. There was no issue there. There is no question mark over their level of remuneration. The controversy and the disquiet arises in respect of five...

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