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Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I welcome Mr. Gloster, Ms Queally and all the team. It is good to have Mr. Gloster before us in an environment other than a meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts. I am usually asking difficult questions about numbers.

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I am going to ask difficult questions about numbers here, too. As we drill down into the whole area of assessments of need and CDNTs, one thing that struck me was the idea that one third of children could go through the process and not reach the bar for an assessment of need.

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: One third of children are coming in to seek a diagnosis of autism where there is no other alternative publicly. One third of the time taken by CDNTs relates to assessments of need rather than the delivery of therapy. I am focused on therapy. To me, that must be the priority. It is where interventions happen. Assessments of need are important and required by law, but my worry is about how...

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: What will the autism protocol look like? At the moment, people are referred to a CDNT, which takes a long time. Their schools are anxiously awaiting some sort of professional assessment and the children are waiting for treatment.

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Perhaps it is unfair of me to ask before the protocol is published, but the bit I am not clear about is how I, as a parent, can get my hands on a professional assessment so that I can approach a school and tell its representatives that my child essentially has a diagnosis.

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Okay.

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: The challenge then is determining the difference between an assessment of need and a professional assessment. We then fall into the same space we were in when the court case was taken, that is, a lower version or poorer interpretation of-----

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: When I looked at the judgment, there was not a clear pathway forward as to how the system should respond. That was one of the things I noticed. We must retain the right to assessment of need.

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I do not think there is any-----

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: We must also get to the point whereby we are freeing up hours and recruiting more staff. I want to talk more about recruitment and so on. I know the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Lawless, has put in place a number of posts, which is welcome. The Minister of State with responsibility for disabilities is a Deputy in my consistency. Mr....

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I will definitely take Mr. Gloster up on his offer to meet the organisation.

Committee on Disability Matters: Progressing the Delivery of Disability Policy and Services: Discussion (Resumed) (18 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Dublin City Council has put forward the site but it also wants to be sure it is a realistic project and the council will not be left holding onto the site for a long time for a project that will not happen. The HSE has demonstrated its good faith, but demonstrating it to Dublin City Council and An Saol is important.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: I propose we write to SOLAS to get further information on that correspondence.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Like Deputy Connolly, I am very reluctant to say what I am about to say. The Peter McVerry Trust has done, and continues to do, huge amounts of good work, but there is no doubt that when an organisation is the subject of an inspection report, significant amounts of public controversy and, on top of that, the injection of €15 million of public money, there is an obligation on it to...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Go raibh maith agat a Chathaoirligh. I welcome the witnesses. Mr. Doyle is correct that there is a large scale and breadth to the work of the Department. Unfortunately for him, I am also a member of the committee on housing so I will reserve some of my question for the next time he appears there. I will focus on the financial issues this morning. The previous committee on housing and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Would that have been through the regional executive?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Obviously, the committee has highlighted the good work being done by the Peter McVerry Trust on the ground and there was an obligation on the Department to ensure it continued. The Comptroller and Auditor General, however, has made some strong points concerning the advancing of funds without, in some cases, the necessary approval from the Department of public expenditure and reform or Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: Maybe I am confused. Is it correct that the total amount advanced by the executive was €5.3 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: In excess of the €2 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 2 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 11 - Exceptional State Funding of the Peter McVerry Trust
Chapter 12 - Local Infrastructure Housing Activation Fund
Local Government Fund - Account 2023
(19 Jun 2025)

Paul McAuliffe: There was no approval for the €2 million and the ultimate amount paid was €5.3 million.

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