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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: Yes, the Deputy is out of time. We will move on to Deputy Ó Broin.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: The representatives of the CIF have one minute to respond to the Deputy's question about high-carbon materials.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: As quickly as you can, Mr. Parlon, because I have to stay on time. Go head.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: That is a good point. Mr. Browne answered my first question a moment ago. It is critically important that the carbon assessment is done at the planning and construction stage. People want to buy an A-rated home. That is the running life of the home while they are in it. People also want to know that the construction and methodology used also contribute to that. Aside from the climate...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: I apologise for interrupting Mr. Downey. The Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland, SCSI, did a report last year. It broke down the costs into 48% hard costs and 52% soft costs. Would there be an impact on the 48% hard costs with MMC?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: I will move onto scale now. What is suggested by that mandate is, if we are going to start ramping up to 40,000 homes per year, which is what is needed to produce through various methods, and if we were to set that target at 10,000, we probably do not have capacity within the MMC manufacturing base in the country at the moment. It is a chicken and egg situation. We would have to have...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: It is not a magic solution for provision of thousands of homes; it is just another method of construction. We have to be realistic about the numbers. Is this a five- to ten-year timeframe to scale up to start hitting those targets? Where does Mr. Browne believe we should realistically pitch that figure at?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: What Mr. Browne said about building design is similar. The Ford Model T produced good quality and a lot of it, available in any colour. He mentioned that disadvantage. They were all the same colour. I have a question for Mr. Stevens. Last week, we discussed building regulation standards, Part B and the technical guidance as well. It was not entirely clear that much progress has been...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: It was suggested to us by the NSAI, but I am not certain it was NSAI, that it is possible but difficult. That is probably off-putting for people. As practitioners, what is the view about what we need to do with Part B? Is it just Part B? Are there other structural issues we need to consider as well in other parts of the technical guidance?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: Is that because they are dissuaded from doing it since it is difficult? Is the CIF involved in the working group examining Part B and how to overcome the potential barriers for building with timber?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: I have to keep myself to time as well. I call Deputy O'Callaghan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: I thank Mr. Searson and Ms McManus for clarifying about timber build. For people looking in who do not have the technical knowledge, they might hear that figure of timber frame construction and not realise it is a concrete block on the outside. We can apply the same question of how much was timber frame inner or twin wall as I think it was called.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: If we were to ask how many were done without that outer block leaf, as with the one Ms McManus is describing as fully timber, we would have a much lower-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: That is an interesting and important clarification.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: I thank the Deputy. Coillte told us they produced 700,000 cu. m of construction grade timber last year. I cannot remember how much was used here and how much was for export but there is considerable potential for home-grown Irish timber. I will now move to Senator Cummins.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: I will take this slot and Senator Cummins may contribute after me if he wishes. Following on from what Mr. Browne said, the State needs to lead by example. Regarding life expectancy and comparability of conventional builds, while they have not been without difficulty, is there a risk that the State leads on social housing while we perfect the art before we move to private housing? Is there...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: While the State leads by example in delivering at scale social or public housing, we are perfecting the art before we move to private housing. Are there any concerns on that aspect? I read somewhere that architects have experimented with social housing budgets.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: If one were to pick a country in Europe that has a set of standards and guidelines similar to our Part B, pluck them off the shelf and implement them in Ireland, where should we look? Why are we trying to reinvent something already deliverable elsewhere? Mr. Stevens mentioned Germany. If we were to take the German standard model-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: If we do not adopt those types of standards or introduce them relatively quickly and properly, do we run the risk that modern methods of construction will be limited to 10 m or possibly 11 m, as Deputy Duffy said? That would mean we will continue the semi-detached model and will not be able to build high-rise, although 100 storeys is very high. If we could do three, four, five or six...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Modern Construction Methods: Discussion (Resumed) (9 May 2023)

Steven Matthews: I completely agree with Mr. Browne but it will not happen unless we get the technical guidance - this Part B, which seems to be blocking it - exactly right.

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