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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Mr. Rafferty was on it. Were all the issues being raised, like affordability and people being locked out of the scheme, those who could not get onto the scheme because they could not afford it, included?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: That was not the remit. It is not what the Minister asked us to do. The terms of reference for the group were to produce a report based on how well the scheme was delivering within the current legislative framework, guidelines and regulations that were there. So it was how well it was delivering on that basis. It was not to look at issues such as those mentioned by the Deputy, like cost...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I am just trying to get to how the Minister could be satisfied with the progress that was being made when so many people are locked out of the scheme because they cannot even afford to access it. I am trying to match that up in terms of the report and the Minister being satisfied. The report led him to believe that he was satisfied.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Representatives from Engineers Ireland were before the committee last week. We have spoken at previous meetings about foundations not being tested and so on. Riddle me this: how can Mr. Rafferty say a scheme is operating satisfactorily – and the Minister, the report, the steering group all agree that it is operating satisfactorily – when we have a situation where there is real...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: It is becoming more and more apparent IS 465 is absolutely not fit for purpose. I am trying to reconcile how we can be so happy with a scheme where we have standards that are not fit for purpose.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I understand that and we have gone over that. I want to move on a bit. Something else does not add up either. Why has the Department removed the science and testing by the chartered engineers registered under the IS 465 standard report and the recommendations of option 1 from the new scheme? Why was the homeowner's engineer with building condition assessment replaced? Why replace the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: That is right.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I just think it is baffling-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I know, but Mr. Rafferty is talking about expediency and making it efficient. We are building all these houses and we do not have the homeowners' engineer and we have taken the science out of it. We are not going to get a review of this until 2025 and by the time the changes are made, we could be at the end of that year or into 2026. What happens if all the homes that are being rebuilt...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I know, but what is happening-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: The IS 465 is obviously not fit for purpose. Putting the affordability of the scheme to one side, I have deep concerns about what is happening with respect to the science of it. Many of the homeowners have had to pursue the science around it. I have a question that has been asked by a homeowner. The damage threshold, the scientific evidence that was required in the 90:10 scheme, does not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I am not talking about one specific case.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: There are so many issues to discussed on this. With the damage threshold, it is now a case of just a visual sighting of it and people are being refused on the basis of the cracks in the wall not being wide enough. Why is the Department prolonging the suffering of homeowners who want to get on with rebuilding their lives? If they know what they have in their blocks and have the testing done,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Was this being the right way to go discussed in all the technical committees that Mr. Wickham has been part of?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I would like to refer to the report of 2017. Mr. Wickham is saying that the expert panel did not commission or carry out any tests on the buildings or building materials and was dependent on the technical information supplied directly by the homeowners and concerned parties, and the panel had no responsibility for the accuracy of technical reports. It seems like nobody is taking...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: How much research is being carried out right now?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Is Mr. Wickham satisfied that the scope of the research is what he set out to do and wanted to capture?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I need to go back because I want to let my colleague in and I have to go into Taoiseach's questions. I want to go back to the front-loading of the grant applications. The homeowners in Mayo were asking for a 20% grant allocation to rebuild their homes, which must be available up front. Some 50% of the accommodation rental costs and full storage costs were to be paid up front to the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Defective Concrete Blocks: Discussion (Resumed) (8 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: So the Minister basically needs to change the legislation if the scheme is to be fit for purpose, so that everybody can access it and people can get an up-front payment where they are not-----

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