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Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Reform Plan: Discussion (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: My questions relate to the announcement to target 88 allowances. I would like to get a figure for the total value of these allowances, the breakdown by Department, the salary grades that are affected, if they are directed at existing public sector workers, and whether it is envisaged to buy out and abolish those particular allowances.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Reform Plan: Discussion (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Can the Minister give us an idea of the total amount involved?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Reform Plan: Discussion (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Can the Minister give us an indication of the figure involved for the business cases?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I thank Mr. Fitzpatrick and Mr. Menton for attending the meeting today. I have about five issues to touch upon so if the Chairman wishes to take a break, I can come in a second time just to be fair to Deputy O'Donnell if he wishes to speak.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Mr. Fitzpatrick said earlier-----

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I will try to expedite what I wanted to ask. Mr. Fitzpatrick said earlier that nothing inside the agreement has threatened it so far. Can something outside the agreement threaten it?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Allowances and increments do not come under the agreement.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: My reading is that they do not come under the agreement.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: According to Mr. Fitzpatrick's interpretation, allowances and increments are outside the agreement. Could they threaten it if they were put on the table?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I am simply interested in the interpretation of the break clause.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: People talk about the break clause in paragraph 1.28 on page 10 of the Croke Park agreement. They talk about how the Government might want to initiate it at some stage. The break clause states that "The implementation of this agreement is subject to no currently unforeseen budgetary deterioration." From my reading of that, it looks as though the break clause can only be implemented by the...

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I do not want to put Mr. Fitzpatrick in a difficult position. I agree with the fiscal advisory council that everything should be on the table as we discuss the forthcoming budget and the adjustment that has to be made. I think that includes increments and allowances. I am trying to figure out, in respect of an interpretation of the break clause, whether one could use a discussion of...

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: If increments and allowances do not come under the agreement, they are outside it. A change in something that is outside the agreement could not really breach it, particularly if the agreement can only be breached by the Government side and only because of budgetary deterioration.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Is pay defined anywhere in the agreement?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Where did that definition come from? If it is not in the agreement, how does it then become defined?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: To define what pay is?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Even though the word "allowances" or "increments" does not appear in the document?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: There is no mention of increments or allowances; it simply mentions pay rates. So if the employer and the unions decided they were going to define core pay, they could decide whether it included allowances and increments.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: If the employer was to decide that it wanted to define pay rates as not including allowances and increments, according to Mr. Fitzpatrick's reading of the break clause, would that give a right to the other side to pull out of the agreement?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: When I read the break clause, which was written in 2010, it seems to indicate that this agreement stands unless the budgetary situation for the country gets worse.

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