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Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Let us stick with those who are registered for a second.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: That is what I am focused on. What we do not have is any sense of how much unpaid taxes there are year on year because of underpayment but we can say with certainty that it is a sizable amount. It is crucial to taxpayers and policymakers. We just had a budget in which we had difficult decisions to make in respect of investment, tax, etc. We at least expect that taxes due should be paid....

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Even if the shadow economy is stripped out of it, as I said, we are talking about people who are registered. We have taken a sample of people who are registered for tax. We can see that there was a non-compliance rate of 35%. Surely there would be value in knowing - in circumstances where there was full compliance - what would be the lost revenue, especially when we, as politicians, have...

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: I accept all of that, but carelessness and errors still result in taxes being unpaid.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Whether it is intentional or unintentional, we end up with taxes not being collected. Does this tell us that there is a potential problem with the self-assessment process?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: What is the breakdown of the random sample for small traders, individuals and bigger companies?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: That is good to hear. I will turn to section 38 and section 39 organisations and charities and their compliance with Revenue. There has been some discussion on this matter because there have been a number of HSE audits, which have not been good. I will not go into any of the details of the organisations or name them but I tabled a parliamentary question to capture exactly how many Revenue...

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Sorry, that is only a sample. If that is only a sample, then how many more interventions would there be if this audit was applied to all charities across the State?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: I accept that but the job of this committee is to make sure we improve compliance. We look at the processes and the failures-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: If there is a failure on the PAYE side or the payroll side, what improvements in process is Revenue looking at to ensure these types of interventions can be avoided and to ensure stronger compliance in the charity sector?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: I thank Mr. Rowntree for accepting the invitation to attend and for his opening remarks. I welcome him to the meeting. What is Mr. Rowntree's understanding of the terms of reference and the remit of the Northern Ireland advisory committee of NAMA?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: How many times a year did the Northern Ireland advisory committee meet? How did those meetings go? Will Mr. Rowntree talk us through the structure? What was discussed at a typical meeting? What type of meeting was typical?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Two and a half hours. I want to get to a part of Mr. Rowntree's speech where he talks about conflicts of interest or individual conflicts of interest. In his opening statement, Mr. Rowntree said, "At the NAMA Northern Ireland advisory committee meetings we were not made aware of direct or perceived individual conflicts of interest matters as noted by individual members".

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: He went on to say a declaration of conflicts that is noted in writing at the start of each meeting by each person attending. How does that work in practice?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Did this happen as members were sitting at the meeting or was it-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: It was at the start of each meeting. So members filled in this declaration and gave it to whom?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: Mr. Rowntree had his own personal register of interest that he updated on a regular basis as well.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: What is that? Is it electronic format or a file?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: It was personal to each individual.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

David Cullinane: What I am taking from what Mr. Rowntree is saying is that he filled in his declaration of conflict of interest if there was any. It was done by Mr. Rowntree.

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