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Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: There is a risk that it would explicitly suggest that educational welfare is solely the remit of the agency. We cannot have that in legislation. The legislation and functions as set out in this Bill will not diminish the role previously carried out by the NEWB under the Education and Welfare Act 2000 in conjunction with schools. To be clear, the functions under that Act will transfer to...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: I thank the Deputies. As Deputy Ciara Conway has done, I refer committee members to page 10 of the Bill and the definition of family. Section 8(1)(c) is sufficiently broad to capture the intent of the amendment proposed. It is important to note that the definition of a family is broader than just parents and guardians. We must take account of the full scope covered by the definition on...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: I know the amendment has been ruled out of order but I wish to respond briefly and say one sentence on the matter if I may. I am of the view that provision is already provided for in the Child Care Act. The agency will have a positive duty under section 3 of the Child Care Act 1991 to promote the welfare of children in its area who are not receiving adequate care and protection.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: I move amendment No. 7: In page 12, lines 30 to 33, to delete subsection (3) and substitute the following:“(3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1), in supporting and encouraging the effective functioning of families pursuant to subsection (1)(c), the Agency shall provide--(a) preventative family support services aimed at promoting the welfare of children, (b) care and...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: I move amendment No. 8: In page 12, subsection (4), to delete lines 34 to 36 and substitute the following:“(4) The services referred to in subsection (3)(c) do not include--”.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: I agree that consistency is a key element of performance, transparency and accountability. There is no question about that. What I would debate is whether it needs a separate expression in the legislation and what precisely the meaning of that expression could give rise to in the legislation. In later sections the legislation places a responsibility on the agency to demonstrate to the...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: I agree that it is an important element of performance management and members have heard me say that often enough. The problem in relation to the statutory mandate in putting it into legislation. I believe it may give rise to difficulties of interpretation which could be genuinely problematic. It would obviously make it justiciable. I could suggest that in the section which gives the...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: In section 48, which provides that notwithstanding the guidance provided by the performance framework, the Minister may at any time issue additional guidelines in writing to the agency. I suggest that those guidelines would take into account the points being made by the Deputy. I think they would do that anyway, but I suggest I can make explicit here the point being raised in the Deputy's...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: I see the intention behind the suggestion put forward by both Deputies, but that is not necessarily how the provision would be interpreted legally if included in the legislation. The Deputy used the word "performance". I believe the performance framework is where that issue should be addressed, because in that performance framework we will be talking about the need for consistency in regard...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: Where does the Deputy want to insert "shall"? Is it in sections 41 and 48?

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: Yes.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: Obviously I support the principle of consistency, but the debate is about whether inserting it in this section would deliver what the Deputy seeks. The judicial interpretation could be varied. I am advised it is not wise to include it in this way. However, we clearly want consistency in the approach of the agency and its standards. I believe the governance and performance framework areas...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: Is that not precisely the point? If every principle had to be repeated in every piece of legislation the reading of the Statute Book as a whole would lose meaning. The Equal Status Act 2012 will apply in full to the child and family agency legislation and its principles need not be restated in the Bill. One could make the argument that if some items from the Statute Book are repeated but...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: To reiterate, the Equal Status Act applies in full and does not need to be restated. I am sure the Deputy would accept that legislation will fully apply to the child and family agency, with all its provisions in respect of principles of equality and non-discrimination.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: Although I see the Deputy's point I believe what he is seeking is well provided for. The word "promote" means to help the progress of something or to support and encourage it. At a very minimum I see that as facilitating, therefore the word "promote" incorporates facilitating and including the extra wording does not add to the policy objective. This is a very serious obligation and we...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: The Deputy will acknowledge that this is the first occasion on which we are placing, via child protection legislation, a strong and explicit obligation on particular bodies to promote inter-agency co-operation. This is being done for the very reasons outlined by the Deputy. There has been a gap and there was no statutory underpinning to support inter-agency co-operation. We are putting in...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: I will reconsider the position before Report Stage. As stated, the word "promote" is strong, proactive and broad. I am not sure whether that is the position with "facilitate". However, I will examine the matter in more detail and revert to the Deputy on Report Stage.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: We are bringing together the three agencies and the other elements on the service in order to create a single agency. That is the purpose of the legislation. There will no longer be a need for intra-agency co-operation because there will be only one agency involved. The main reason I do not wish to accept the amendment is it implies that separate agencies will continue to work together...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: Inter-agency, yes.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (22 Oct 2013)

Frances Fitzgerald: The point those is that these are inter-agency, because they are outside the Child and Family Agency. Deputy Ó Caoláin's amendment implies that it would apply within the agency. "Inter-agency" captures the ongoing relationship with the public health nurses. The intention of the amendment is that intra-agency co-operation will exist, for example, in what was formerly the Family...

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