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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: It is on water quality.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Why was it always issued in July? Now, funnily enough, it is a few months late.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: My next question is for the officials from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. They talk about different problems, including those associated with nitrogen and phosphorus. There are a lot of towns around Ireland where effluent from sewage-treatment plants goes into the rivers we talk about. Funnily enough, the farmer always gets kicked around the place about this....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Modelling is one thing but can Mr. Flynn tell me scientifically?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Based on the sample you take?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: If you took it at the end of a river, at the estuary, and phosphorous was showing, could you ascertain there and then whether it came from a human or an animal?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: So, we could be making assumptions. There are so many things done with modelling at the moment, including some of the climate modelling, but modelling can end up blaming someone. Unless we can know for definite whether the phosphorus is from an animal or the sewage-treatment plant, we have a big problem. Many sewage-treatment plants in this country have two open gates or whatever when...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I understand that but I am trying to establish the position on algae at an estuary in which phosphorous shows up. Mr. Flynn is telling me the EPA, unless it does modelling, cannot say whether it comes from a person or animal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: The only thing I would say to the delegates is that down my way there are many towns that do not have a sewage-treatment plant, unfortunately. In looking for a contributing factor, the finger is always pointed at the farmer. The book would be out even with a treatment facility. It would be fine if we had the finest of treatment plants. I have another question for the delegates from the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: It is banned if you are in Bord Bia.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: TAMS was mentioned. My understanding is that if a farmer does not have enough capacity and is over the stocking limit, he or she will not get a grant. Is that not counterproductive? Should we not try to bring farmers within the requirements? I have seen Mr. Callanan in Leinster House many a time. What is his vision for what will happen? Does he agree that we cannot just bring it down to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: We have discussed the family farm. With the excess increasing from 85 kg in dairy cows – some are increasing to 106 kg, depending on milk yield – will safeguards be put in place for the family farm, be it beef, dairy or whatever? We talked about a smaller dairy family farm as being 100 or 120 cows. Will safeguards be put in place to ensure that, unlike farms with 700, 800 or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: It was the Commission that made Ireland introduce banding.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I am sorry for interrupting Mr. Callanan. We spoke about this earlier. Certain breeds might have higher butter fat or higher protein. There is a fear among some in the agricultural community that certain breeds might not be as heavy milkers as some of the more Holstein-like cows. Some farmers may revert to those cows to keep under the litreage on the banding, and that could end in worse...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Would that be 100 cows?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: As Mr. McCormack will have seen in his local area, there are farmers with 80 or 90 cows who are farming under the derogation. They are not going near the derogation and they farm under the 170 threshold. Mr. McCormack is right that they are now being put into an awkward position by going from 80 or 85 cows to 105 cows, depending on the output of the cow. That is going to affect smaller...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I have a fear about this new litre measure coming, whether the figure is 85 or 105. Is there a danger that farmers may shift to a type of cow whose offspring may not be as good? That could be very problematic for this country down the line.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: What percent?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: You cannot do that. Plenty of notice has to be given. For example, if you are changing the type of dairy cow you have then a phased transition has to be done, otherwise you are in trouble.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Nitrates Derogation and Nitrates Action Programme: Discussion (14 Sep 2022)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Attributing is one thing, upstream or downstream. If I take phosphorus out of the water, can I say whether it came from a human or an animal?

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