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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: How much of his salary did Mr. Conlan repay to the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Why was that net sum repaid?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is that the total net amount?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Why did Mr. Conlan think it necessary to repay that amount?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: When were the CRC accounts for 2012 signed off? Was Mr. Conlan the chief executive officer of CRC when those accounts were signed off?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: The accounts for 2012 would have been for the year to the end of December. Statutory accounts are normally completed after the event. On what date were the CRC 2012 accounts signed off by the board?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: On what date was the agreement with Mr. Kiely signed off by the board?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: What date was that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: The accounts were signed off in May 2013. Mr. Kiely was getting a payment of €742,025, which comprised €200,000 of a tax-free lump sum, €273,333 taxable, making a total of €473,336, and the addition of €268,689 as a pension lump sum to give him three and a half years' extra pension entitlements. I regard that as a post-balance sheet event. Was that...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Are they related parties with common directors?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I would regard that as a related party transaction for CRC. Was it noted in the accounts that an additional amount of €268,000 was put into the pension scheme for Mr. Kiely? Was it noted in the accounts that he was about to be paid a pay-off of €742,000?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: A meeting was held in February 2013 agreeing a pay package. The accounts were signed off in May 2013 and then, by coincidence, these payments of €742,000 were all paid in June 2013. Is that correct? They were all paid after the accounts were signed off. There are a lot of coincidences, a lot of timing and dates after things have been signed off. People were still applying for...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: No inkling at all?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: There were no side discussions in the board room, no meetings at the margins?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: What has happened in CRC and what we have seen in this letter this morning is an affront to the decent people throughout the country who collected the money. They did not collect money to feather the nest of one individual. They collected it to provide front-line services. I ask the Chairman to ask Mr. Kiely to appear before this committee as a matter of urgency. He owes us that and he...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: For a man with Mr. Conlan's level of experience at examining accounts and so on, having been chief executive officer at the Mater Hospital for eight years, it stretches credibility that he would not have spotted that half of the income of the Friends and Supporters of the Central Remedial Clinic was transferred to the Central Remedial Clinic's main company and classified as a donation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Mr. Conlan was director for the previous eight years.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Being a director should have given Mr. Conlan an insight. A simple scan through the bank statements would have shown the figures of €450,000 and €250,000 and immediately raised questions about what was going on.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Many of them do, certainly when we are talking about half the total income of an organisation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: In the circumstances and for the credibility of this process and the committee, we have no option other than to do so.

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