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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Therefore, it fell within Mr. Conlan's remit. Who took charge of the day-to-day operations of the Friends and Supporters of the CRC? Was it Mr. Conlan as chief executive?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Payments of €450,000 and €250,000 were made to Mr. Kiely. Were they made directly from the Friends and Supporters of the CRC or was the money transferred from the Friends and Supporters of the CRC to the CRC?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I have two points, one, the Friends and Supporters of the CRC is a company within the CRC group, that collects money up and down the country, through pools, and ordinary people who collect for the CRC. It looks as if it was being used as a slush fund by top management within the CRC. A slush fund. It is an affront to the people up and down the country who collect this money. It is half of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: On what dates were the €450,000 and the €250,000 transferred from the Friends and Supporters of the CRC to the CRC main company?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: On what date?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Roughly?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: June 2013?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Mr. Conlan came in as CEO of an organisation which is bringing in approximately €1.4 million or €1.5 million in donations from ordinary people - who collect to provide services for ordinary people, not to be giving a divvy-up of the order of €700,000 to Mr. Kiely. Is he telling me it is credible that when, as CEO, he looked into the accounts of the CRC he did not spot -...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: How does Mr. Conlan call them adjustments? A sum of €700,000 is not an adjustment. That is nearly three-quarters of a million euro, which is a crazy figure. I will ask personally that Mr. Kiely refund the money to the Friends and Supporters of the CRC. I will ask again: how often did Mr. Conlan do accounts? Were there monthly management accounts in the Friends and Supporters of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Surely as CEO Mr. Conlan looked to see how much money was there – of course the problem is that the Friends and Supporters always had a balance. What was the balance in the account when Mr. Conlan took over?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: The board was here previously. I would have thought that money would have been put to better use for front-line users. This is a question of priorities. Obviously the €700,000 in the context of €40 million was only a small amount.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: I know all about that. I am more interested in knowing whether Mr. Conlan thinks it credible that when, as CEO, he considered the Friends and Supporters of the CRC and saw two payments, one of €450,000, one of €250,000 going from Friends and Supporters of the CRC to the main CRC company, classified as a donation he did not know that it was not a donation. It was effectively...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: What did Mr. Conlan think it was being used for?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: No. Does Mr. Conlan think it is credible that as CEO, when he read bank statements of the Friends and Supporters of the CRC he did not ask where the €450,000 and €250,000 went and what it was used for? Does he think it is credible that he would not ask that question as CEO?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: What did Mr. Conlan understand his pension was?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: A sum of €200,000?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Did Mr. Conlan ask where the €450,000 and €250,000 would have come in? Does the CRC have a financial controller?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Did Mr. Conlan have continual discussions with the financial controller?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: It stretches credibility that, as CEO, Mr. Conlan was not aware of these payments coming up. To me it is very simple, our job as a committee concerns public moneys and moneys collected by the public. A sum of €700,000 that should have gone to front-line services was transferred from one company, the Friends and Supporters of the CRC, to the main company, CRC, and classified as a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Kieran O'Donnell: Side by side with that Mr. Conlan had CRC Medical Devices. What was the amount owed by CRC Medical Devices to the Friends and Supporters of the CRC at that particular point?

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