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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: Two questions have been asked, the first on the issue of the sex workers being driven underground and the second on legislating for a minority.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: I ask the Senator to be as brief as possible.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: I thank the Senator for not being controversial. The issue she raises is the legalisation of prostitution for those who need the services.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: Perhaps Dr. Whitaker would answer that first before taking the second question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: In regard to the Swedish model, if we accept that sex work is demand-led, it seems logical that a growing demand will see increasing numbers attracted to the work. Some workers are, as Dr. Whitaker observed, attracted into the occupation by free choice. It seems clear, however, that where there is money to be made, there will be people who find themselves coerced or trafficked. The bottom...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: The argument is that reducing demand will reduce the incidence of prostitution, including coerced prostitution. Does Dr. Whitaker agree with that proposition?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: That is not a response to the question I asked, which related specifically to the demand issue. The argument is that if a potential buyer of sex, who could be a man with a wife and children, knows there is a risk that his identity might be made public through discovery by the police, he will be less likely to purchase sex. As demand goes down in this manner, it is argued, the pull factor...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: I expect most economists would say that it does. I thank Dr. Whitaker for her contribution to today's meeting. We are in the midst of a process of examining this issue and will take on board what she has said. I now invite Ms Monica O'Connor to make her presentation. I thank her for her patience thus far.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: I call Deputy Corcoran Kennedy.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: I thank Ms O'Connor for her useful comments. Norway's approach was criticised. Will Ms O'Connor comment in that regard?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: I thank Ms O'Connor. I must apologise for the fact that members have been pulled away to other duties and for the lateness of the hour. Three speakers remain. Would it be in order for them to present one after the other, followed by a final round of questions? There are no objections. I call Dr. Pillinger.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: Fair enough. I call Dr. McGarry.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: I thank Dr. McGarry for her interesting presentation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: I thank Ms Regan. Do members have questions or comments for Dr. McGarry or Ms Regan?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: We are looking at all kinds of models. Dr. McGarry, did you seek out, or try to discover, people who had been coerced and were in prostitution against their will? Did you come across anyone like that, or try to?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: Did you try to?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: It was mentioned earlier that there are different forms of coercion. One form of coercion is poverty and lack of education. Would you accept that is a form of coercion?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: May I develop that point? Are you saying there is a continuum from one end where people are trafficked and in sex slavery, through poverty and so on, to a point where people choose prostitution. This might be a question for Ms Regan, because the committee has been contacted by people who say they do this work completely voluntarily. There seems to be a continuum here. Would you accept...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: Where, on that continuum, were the people you met?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Review of Legislation on Prostitution: Discussion (Resumed) (16 Jan 2013)

David Stanton: You are describing very vulnerable people. When we were in Sweden we were told sex traffickers target the kind of people you describe. In eastern Europe, for example, traffickers target vulnerable people - girls in the main - entice, induce and kidnap them and bring them to more wealthy parts of Europe to work in the sex industry. You have described very vulnerable people. Some young...