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Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: If the person has spent time in the nursing home and it is their home, the time spent in the nursing home will be taken into account from the moment a successor is appointed.

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: Yes

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: If he or she does not own the farm, it does not come into it. That person will enter the nursing home and be calculated under his or her principal private residence. If that person no longer-----

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: The time when the farm was transferred to another family member does not count.

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: My understanding is that the same premise applies. When an applicant retires or ceases working the farm or business prior to entering long-term care, it is expected that his or her partner or the family successor will have taken over the farm. The cap will first apply when the person has spent three years in a nursing home. This is the amendment we are introducing in respect of the sale of...

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: I appreciate that and we can furnish information in writing to the Deputy on this question.

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: There are quite a few complex issues there. The first response I will give is to Deputy Danny Healy-Rae. He raised his concerns on Second Stage and I have spoken to him in person. The Deputy's concern is that by including a farm or business asset in the financial assessment at all, it could challenge the future viability of the farm or business as a productive asset that could provide an...

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: To be clear, the person is in a nursing home but is paying for it privately.

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: He or she has not applied for the fair deal scheme.

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: That person can apply from tomorrow or from when the scheme is enacted. He or she can appoint a successor and the time spent will count.

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: Absolutely. It is from the time the successor is appointed that any time served will count. Even though the person had not taken a place under the fair deal scheme, he or she can start taking part in it from when the Bill is enacted or even from tomorrow. That time will count, categorically.

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: I would like to work with the Deputies on this amendment. The new legislation provision mirrors section 24 of the principal Act, in terms of notification of material change in circumstance of persons provided with financial support. In this section, as Deputy Naugten said, the time span allowed is ten working days, which is two weeks. This section has not caused any problems for the HSE...

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: Once they notify the scheme within those 20 working days, they have six months to establish what needs to be done. Once they make a notification within the 20 working days, there is a six-month timeframe available to sort out the issues.

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: We will certainly give it consideration.

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: I wish to table an amendment on Report Stage.

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: Yes. I will give the committee a little bit of information. On Report Stage, a technical amendment will be required to section 19 of the Bill which amends section 29 of the 2009 Act. This section concerns when a charging order is placed in the context of ancillary State support on an asset under joint ownership. Section 29 has been updated to take into account the chartered provisions...

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: There are a number of inheritance scenarios which need be described and accounted for in the Bill, depending on the ownership model of assets that both members of a couple have an interest in. The goal at all times is to ensure fairness for the couple. To be clear, the Bill refers to a daughter or son who is married and takes into account people who have partners, which is very important in...

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: I wish to flag that I will be bringing an amendment forward at Report Stage. This section amends section 36 of the principal Act and allows the Minister, in respect of any difficulty which arises during the period of three years from the commencement of the Act of 2021, by regulations to do anything which appears to be necessary or expedient for bringing the amendments in the Act into...

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: Deputy Denis Naughten’s amendment was ruled out of order by the Bills Office. I did not have any part in that. I will address some of the Deputy's points and then will speak in general regarding Deputy Shortall’s amendment, which will allow me to address almost all of the points that have been made. When an asset includes an inherent and-or sale value and generates an income,...

Select Committee on Health: Nursing Homes Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (30 Jun 2021)

Mary Butler: Can the Chairman hear me?

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