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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I accept that.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: Of course, and that should be provided for. For example, if several members of a jury-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: Natural justice must be taken into account.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: That is not mentioned in the guidelines on procedure. The Minister did not deal with that point in the discussion on section 16. We will come back to it on Report Stage.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 22: In page 35, subsection (1)(a), to delete line 10, and substitute the following:"31.—(1) The committee shall, at any time before it gives the final report to the House, give the House three monthly interim reports in writing in accordance with rules and standing orders. (2) (a) Subject to subsection (3), the House may, at any time".The legislation, as drafted,...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I understand that. The only point I would make and I will not labour it is that a committee could be dealing with a module, the duration of which could extend for six or eight months, and there is nothing to prevent it from deciding at the end of 90 days work to log the work that has done, put it in writing and lodge it as an interim report and that could then be superseded by a report at...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: It would be an interim report and there would be caveats.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I still think there is merit in protecting the taxpayer where in the case of a long module-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: The Minister agrees with the principle.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: The Minister is saying that this can be done by way of the rules of the House.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I am thinking of some of the tribunals whose work continued for eight or nine years which produced only two interim reports during that period. The House to which the Minister is referring in this context had the same authority to seek interim reports more regularly, but the Houses tend not to interfere with the work of a committee when it is involved in a matter that is ongoing. In any...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: They would have to start the work again.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I think it is a good amendment.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: It would be the first time.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 32: In page 58, before section 68, to insert the following new section:“68.—Any inquiry or committee of inquiry established under this Act shall have the power to request the Government to waive Cabinet confidentiality in relation to matters being inquired into by that committee.”. This amendment is essentially to give the inquiring committee power...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I understand what is in the Constitution, from which Deputy Donnelly read. It refers to discussions only and not to papers. We are very clear that the amendment to the Constitution set out in Article 28.4.3° refers to the confidentiality of discussions and does not protect papers to the same extent. There is an exception where there is an application by a tribunal appointed by the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: In relation to Cabinet. The banking inquiry is about Government discussions.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: Then we are agreed on that.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: I tabled the amendment in a bit of a rush last week. It deals with Cabinet confidentiality but what I mean to get at is the legal privilege normally claimed in respect of the Attorney General's advice. That cannot be discussed now and I will come back to it on Report Stage. I am thinking of a specific case. I looked with disquiet at an aspect of the draft report of the Moriarty tribunal...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Seán Fleming: The point I am making here-----

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