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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: Deputy Paschal Donohoe will deal with the general Vote.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: Deputies Eoghan Murphy and Mary Lou McDonald have indicated. I hope to move to chapter 15 at noon. We can revisit the general Vote, but I remind the committee that such is the timeframe.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: The Deputy is the lead speaker on the chapter.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: That depends on how long the discussion on chapter 15 takes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: That is up to the Deputy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: We can come back on the general Vote again. I call Deputy Nolan on chapter 15.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: Our advice is that this matter is rightfully before the committee, which is working on the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. Therefore, members have an obligation to go through that report and to ask the questions they see as appropriate. As I see it, from his opening remarks and exchanges up to now, Deputy Nolan can proceed and ask questions but he must bear in mind the constraints...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: The content of those questions may cut across the court case but the Comptroller and Auditor General's report is a public document and can be examined in terms of the general content. If Deputy Nolan pursued his questions along those lines, I would ask both the Accounting Officer and the Chief State Solicitor to co-operate with the questions that are being asked as long as we observe those...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: Would Mr. Purcell like to comment on this?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: Is this a question that Mr. Purcell would not answer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: If Mr. Purcell makes the request formally, we must consider it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: That is what we are attempting to do.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: It is a matter for the witnesses. The Deputy asked a question. Maybe they will answer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: Deputy Nolan has asked if the questions could be answered were the witnesses to request to go into private session pursuant to Standing Order 163.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: Does Ms Creedon wish to comment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: It is clear from the exchange that even if we go into private session, no further information will be gathered and no questions will be answered because it is the same position. If members agree that to be the case, we will close this exchange and return to discussing the general Vote. Is that agreed? Agreed. Deputy Eoghan Murphy was in possession and had asked questions on the general...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: The asylum and immigration system costs us €140 million per year. Does that include the payments to appeals commissioners, or is that the correct title?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: How many appeals commissioners are there? Do you have a list of the payments made to them?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: Can you give us information on the highest earner?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor
Vote 19 - Justice and Equality
Chapter 15: Lease of Accommodation for a Probation Service Project
(21 Mar 2013)

John McGuinness: What was the average payment? Can we have a copy of that list?

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