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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: Mr. Balfe said the NSAI is not the only notifying body. Does he know the total number of such bodies in the State? Do they follow a different process but with the same audit?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: I am finding this quite complex. I do not know whether anybody else is finding the same. I will have a think about it and may come back with further questions. Senator Fitzpatrick referred to SI 365 of 2015, which provides for an opt-out from the certification process in respect of one-off rural housing. I understand that provision applies to approximately one quarter of all housing...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: To whom is that question directed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: We are into the third round now so I ask members to indicate. Deputy Ó Broin wishes to come back in. I just want to clarify a point for myself. I said people looking in want to have confidence we have a robust structure of testing and regulations in place so we do not see this again. Returning to the testing, somebody must submit their certificate of conformity to the NSAI for their...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: Okay. Is there some kind of heading like "Test for Deleterious Materials" that sets out what materials should be looked for? Is there a stress or strength test and if it fails we say this could be caused by a deleterious material and we will therefore check for it? Is there a list of deleterious materials products that should be tested for?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: All right. I lack the knowledge on this. Sulphates include the likes of pyrite and pyrrhotite. They are classified as sulphurous materials.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: And mica?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: Is mica on the list to test for?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: Okay. I have one last question on this. Ms Wylde wishes to come in.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: All right, and there is a certain level of sulphur or deleterious material that is kind of acceptable to have as it is naturally-occurring. Therefore, there are levels that are acceptable. When was the last time we saw concrete product either from a quarry or a producer that was tested and contained levels above the acceptable standard for sulphurous materials? I am aware NSAI only covers...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: Do we then run into a dead end of tracing back how this ended up in here? If the manufacturer does not notify the NSAI it is not aware of it so how do we ensure we can trace it back in the supply chain?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: Okay. I am trying to give people out there confidence we have a whole range of safety nets to stop this material ending up in people's homes. Let me get this clear in my head again. If somebody's product fails to meet the standard for the level of sulphurous materials in it, will they notify the bodies present of that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: They will not, okay. How then do we know how that stuff got into the product without our testing where it came from? Our guests probably cannot answer that because they are not aware of it. Is this a concern to anybody here? We have a product that did not meet the standard because a deleterious material is present. We get rid of that and we do not have to tell anybody about it, but where...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: Who is the obligation on to inform a geologist to go and test where our source product came from?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: It is the manufacturer.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: It would be good if Mr. McGrath could. I am just trying to understand. I am not trying to catch somebody out here; I am trying to understand the chain.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: Great, okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: Okay. Forgive me if I get this wrong again but with this product that has failed the test, the obligation is on the manufacturer to then go back and notify their source quarry or the manufacturer has to get a geologist to check their source product.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Issues Relating to Quarries and Deleterious Materials: Discussion (6 Dec 2022)

Steven Matthews: We are depending on the quarry management skills there because Mr. McGrath said there could be one part of the quarry that is suitable for this product and does not contain deleterious materials or contains levels that are okay and other parts of that may not. We are depending on the quarry's management of its aggregate, fines and so on.

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