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Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: I am not familiar with the case to which Senator Coghlan refers but I certainly will be happy to talk to him about it later. It is not in the interests of anybody that, unintentionally, a good company employing several hundred persons is forced into liquidation, and I would not like to see such a situation. All I would say to Senator Coghlan on the performing loans is that NAMA deals with...

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: Maybe this issue can be sorted out. I will talk to Senator Coghlan about it. On the use of the word "may" or "shall", I reiterate the commitment the Minister gave in the lower House that he will introduce guidelines. He may well introduce a number of sets of guidelines. For example, he intends to introduce guidelines from time to time to respond to sectoral credit problems as they arise....

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: I stated that people appeared to suggest it. If that is not what they meant, it is fine, but that is the way it came across to me.

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: I appreciate that. However, I am just saying if anyone is under that impression, it is an illusion. On the Department or the Minister for Finance intervening in the banks to ensure that credit flows, if the thing is not working as we intend it to work, if that fundamental first purpose set out in the purposes section of the legislation is not being achieved, of course we will have to...

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: It is because it is a State body. The income accruing to NAMA accrues to the State, so what we would be doing by taxing the income from NAMA is to have the State apply income tax on its own income to hand back to itself.

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: The SPV is not exempt.

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: NAMA is exempt but the SPV is not exempt.

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: My understanding is that the income-----

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: No.

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: NAMA is a State body not subject to tax. The SPV will be subject to tax because it will be in possession of a great deal of property and it is the SPV which is the property owner and the entity holding the title to the properties. If there was one major, dominant player in the property market which was not subject to tax, this would seriously distort the market. My understanding is that...

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: There is nothing to stop Senator Leyden or any other Senator or Deputy raising in the Seanad or Dáil general or, even specific, issues in regard to NAMA. There is nothing to stop them putting down parliamentary questions in this regard to the Minister for Finance who will, of course, answer to Parliament for NAMA.

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: It strikes me it would be absolutely devastating to the national interest if we allowed secret lobbying of NAMA or its officials-----

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: -----with the intention of influencing the making of a decision in relation to the performance of the functions of NAMA. The function of NAMA will be to get credit flowing in the country again. NAMA has an obligation. The Irish people are making a huge investment in NAMA, whose obligation it is to recoup that money on their behalf. It cannot be subject to secret lobbying.

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: That is the reality. On the defences a person will have in terms of how far he or she can go, I agree with Senator White that subsection (4) does not cover Deputies and Senators.

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: It provides an exemption to a person who is acting in his or her professional capacity or in the course of his or her employment. I would not like to chance that one. If one is charged under subsection (3) of the offence of approaching NAMA one can defend-----

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: One can defend oneself on the grounds that such an approach is made public at the time of the communication, is made without an intention to benefit, or confer an advantage on, any specific person, or is made in the public interest. These are three standalone provisions any one of which will get a person off the hook. It would be wrong to say that if Senator Coghlan wants to speak with me...

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: I am speaking about publicising the name and so on.

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: Yes. The reality is that there is a compelling need for this section. People will understand that.

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: Wrongdoing can take place in any organisation regardless of whether it is in the public or private sector and even where proper internal financial control structures are put in place. Unfortunately, there have been several examples of this in recent times. The Minister has included several sections in the Bill relating to the disclosure of information to the various authorities, where...

Seanad: National Asset Management Agency Bill 2009: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Nov 2009)

Willie O'Dea: With regard to synchronising the offences with the offences under section 210, I am advised the whistleblower provision is modelled on a similar provision in the FÁS legislation, so the same penalties are applied. The Deputy has a point and I will bring it to the attention of the Minister. On Senator Twomey's point about being able to report to Members of the Oireachtas, I believe that if a...

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