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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: I will make two points. The specific issue, while it relates to the flat complexes because they are some of the older stock, also relates to some of the stock in the voluntary sector, such as The Iveagh Trust, which are even older. The Iveagh Trust is currently considering moving some of its social housing stock into affordable housing because it is having financial difficulties with...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: I am with Deputy McAuliffe. Many people do not realise that an AHB gets substantially more money from the Government per unit of accommodation than a local authority does. AHBs get an estimated cost of the long-term maintenance of the stock whereas local authorities do not. In fact, local authorities do not get anything for stock maintenance and the rents pay less than half of that cost....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: I agree with Senator Fitzpatrick that we want the officials rather than the Minister to attend some of these meetings. For example, regarding the approval process for the public spending code, the two lead officials from the two Departments should come in. It would be good to have the CCMA in because they can give us the overview of the local government sector. There has been a review of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: It is important we do not duplicate or mistime the work. For example, legislation is coming soon for a directly elected mayor for Limerick, which we will have to consider in prelegislative scrutiny. That will be a good opportunity for us to widen out that conversation. My understanding is the programme for Government has a commitment for a Citizens' Assembly on a directly elected mayor for...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: I do not want to argue in any way against the proposal but for the benefit of new Deputies and Senators, there is usually resistance from the relevant Department when we stray into the responsibility of another committee. We had a problem previously when we sought to raise issues that were dealt with by another Department. We were told we could not raise them because they were the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: It is an even broader issue than that. The Accounting Officers in local authorities are not accountable to anybody beyond themselves, whereas every departmental Accounting Officer, who is also the Secretary General, is brought before the Committee of Public Accounts. That is not the case with local government. There have been two debates up until this point. One is that the Committee...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: No, there were some discussions in the previous Dáil but they never went anywhere. This is something that this committee could legitimately raise as an issue and invite various people in to speak upon. We could invite the Comptroller and Auditor General, the Chairman of the Committee Public Accounts and the head of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform or whomever else, and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: To be helpful, with regard to PLS, ordinarily what happens is the Department would come in but the committee would also invite others to come in to give views on it. As this is legislation of great importance, it would not be unusual, for example, for the Environmental Protection Agency or the Sustainable Water Network, SWAN - who look after advocacy for water - or whomever, to attend. The...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: The purpose of PLS is that before the Bill is published, the draft heads are brought before the committee. This is then a good opportunity for the members to familiarise themselves on the detail of the Bill but also to listen to different sectoral interests. The committee produces a report then, which the secretariat, unfortunately, have to beaver away at. That has then to be agreed by the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: I am not trying to box it off in one way or another but one of the benefits of having the outside bodies come in before the Department is that they fill our heads with all sorts of interesting questions, which we then ask the Department.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: Generally speaking, it is an interesting way to do it. The Department will come in the following week if they want to do so. It has a team of people dedicated to this Bill

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: To be clear, pre-legislative scrutiny is a public event so whether we do it through Teams or in here, it is a public meeting. That is the whole point of it, unless we are saying it should be a private briefing. There are many other people who will also be interested in this legislation and, as a general rule, pre-legislative scrutiny would always be in public session. If we have a fully...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: There is no facility for it other than that if it is held here. That creates a dilemma for the committee. Getting a private briefing on a Bill is fine; we can get that any time. Pre-legislative scrutiny is a central part of the legislative process and in general it should be done in public. For example, people who will be affected by this Bill will want to know what is involved. We do...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: Would there be two meetings?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: That is a matter for us. The officials will tell the Chairman their position. We work to our schedule. Does the Chairman know what I mean?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: A better way to proceed would be to have a dedicated session on the right to housing, to which various relevant bodies would be invited. Home for Good could be invited to present the findings from its research. Mercy Law Resource Centre has produced four detailed reports on the constitutional right to housing, so its representatives could also be invited. Other representatives might also...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: When the committee goes online, it is private. What we do here is not just about us; it is also about the public, public knowledge and information. All of that goes on the record. Only once in the past four years did we waive public pre-legislative scrutiny. It was on a very non-controversial issue regarding which all the parties had agreed to work with the Minister. In general, we try...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: Just to complicate matters further, we are likely to have more Government legislation although that is not yet clear. To remind members, there is a series of Opposition Bills from the last Dáil for which we have to find some room in our schedule. These are Bills from Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin, the Social Democrats, the Labour Party and others. For some of the Bills, the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: Most of the groups we will invite in will be really keen to come before the committee. The issue is that we cannot have an unlimited list.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Committee Work Programme: Discussion (Resumed) (13 Oct 2020)

Eoin Ó Broin: What we often did was that the committee decided there were two or three groups we really wanted to bring in to question and others could make written submissions.

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