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Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: I cannot reply to Senator Higgins's comments while remaining in order. It is not in order for the Senator to waste time by discussing matters which are not related to the amendments under consideration by the House. I was told that the Seanad was unhappy with the use of a guillotine in the other House. That is a matter for the other House. The guillotine was needed in circumstances of massive...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: I identify with Senator Mansergh's comments. The notion that the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and civil servants are conspiring to bear down on the Oireachtas and sweep away rights is utterly untrue. One only needs to examine the procedures followed with this Bill. When I was appointed Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in 2002, my Department commenced planning...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: Business had to be continued. With regard to a point raised by Senator Maurice Hayes, I could have accepted the Labour Party's Private Members' business proposal, which would have deferred consideration of the Bill until a commission on policing had reported in 18 months' time. If I had done this, the next general election would be approaching with no work done on Garda reform, no change...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: The Army is one example. During an impassioned contribution to a Private Members' debate in the Dáil, Deputy Costello pleaded with me to transfer elements of Garda training to a new campus in his constituency at Grangegorman. However, the public relations aspect of that would not be good. It would have been better to use the description, "north inner city Dublin". The traffic corps was...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: We decided the traffic policing function would be retained by the Garda and an assistant commissioner is in charge of establishing the traffic corps as a separate division within the force. At least 600 of the 2,000 additional recruits will supplement the existing 500 road traffic complement of the Garda so that the corps will number approximately 1,200. The purpose of this is to increase...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: It has been suggested that promotions within the Garda are political. I am totally unaware of the party political allegiances of any senior member of the Garda Síochána. I do not know what are their sympathies. I have never had a discussion nor have I had an intelligent reflection on that subject. I am wholly unaware of their political outlook.

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: The Bill, for the first time, provides for an independent system of promotions within the Garda with external people constituting the majority of every promotion board for sergeant, inspector, superintendent and chief superintendent. However, the three most senior appointments are dealt with on a discretionary basis by the Government. I assure the House I have gone through the process of...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: The second group of amendments consists of amendments Nos. 4, 7, 8, 26 to 31 inclusive, 125 and 128. There was a lengthy discussion in this House and on Committee Stage in the Dáil on the provisions in the Bill dealing with what were originally termed "volunteer members" of the Garda Síochána. During the course of the latter debate I undertook to consider further some of the points raised...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: The Senator should talk to Deputy Jim O'Keeffe about that.

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: I agree completely with Senator Maurice Hayes that the big issue, also mentioned on Committee Stage by Senator Cummins, is that many members of the existing ranks regard this as some sort of effort to bypass or replicate them or produce what was ineloquently described as "yellow-pack" policing. Nothing could be further from my mind. I am talking about the new Ireland of today, in which the...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: I honestly believe that quite the reverse is the case. The absence of a reserve in this State compared with Northern Ireland would, if left unchecked, widen the gulf between the Garda Síochána and the community at a time when we want to narrow the gap. I am strongly of the view that it has a positive potential in the interest of every single member of the Garda Síochána, particularly the...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: The third group consists only of amendment No. 51 which deals with closed circuit television, CCTV, systems. I brought forward a Report Stage amendment in the Dáil which provides for the installation of CCTV equipment to allow for the recording of data in two sets of circumstances. I will briefly explain why this amendment was introduced at such a late stage. During the past year, the...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: I listened to SenatorCummins giving out about the fact that many years after CCTV was in existence I decided to provide a legal basis for it. The fact is that it was only in the context of looking at CCTV that we asked the Attorney General's office if it was happy that we were operating it without a statutory basis and the advise was that there should be a statutory basis for it under the...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: It reminds me of the remark that was attributed, probably unfairly, to the former Taoiseach, Garrett FitzGerald——

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: ——"That is all right in practice but how will it work out in theory?" CCTV has been in operation for years and we never worked out the theory of it. We are now getting the theory.

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: That is right. To answer the point, if I had queried with my Secretary General whether we had a proper statutory basis for this and he said that we will not ask that question because it is too inconvenient, we might be in a very different situation.

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: People would be saying that for years we knowingly ran a system which we knew required a statutory basis but we did nothing about it. One cannot win on these issues. Regarding the Commissioner and the centralisation point, the Commissioner's powers can be delegated under section 31. On the basis of what Senator Maurice Hayes talked about, I believe he should say that decisions on the location...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: I will take a brief to argue either side of that case. The guidelines can deal with the question of destruction if it is an issue. When guidelines are issued, I draw the House's attention to the fact that the directives will be laid before each House of the Oireachtas as soon as possible after they have been made. When this Bill was being drafted, I noticed on the draft that there was a...

Seanad: Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil]: Report Stage. (28 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: That is where subsection (13) originated. I thought we might have the unintended consequence of making illegal that which we all believe is very good. On the fixed and permanent system, that was put in again at my insistence. I will give an example of that, although I do not want to get into the question of guilt or innocence. The spraying of graffiti on Jewish sites in Dublin was the subject...

Leaders' Questions. (29 Jun 2005)

Michael McDowell: That is another untruth. The Deputy is shameless.

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