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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: Does Mr. Lawlor wish to take the first question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: It is my slot next. We have a panel referred to in the current legislation, which are those nominating bodies. In this proposed amendment, we are talking about a panel that to my understanding consists of a number of people the committee would recommend from which the Minister could select. Therefore, we have "panel" used in two different ways.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: I am trying to clarify that in my own mind as much as anybody else's. I will stick with the discussion on the committee. What would Ms Uí Bhroin recommend in terms of how that committee should be formed? First of all, the general scheme of the Bill states "the Minister shall" set up this committee. Ms Uí Bhroin made reference to how the members are selected. She said it is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: I would be interested in hearing more about that. These sessions are really helpful because we get to look at this legislation before it becomes a Bill. It is a general scheme at the moment. When we are able to engage with expert witnesses like Ms Uí Bhroin, it really helps us to formulate and say this is how we can actually improve it. That is what I would hope to get out of this...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: Deputy Cian O'Callaghan made the point and I think the Department agreed that those other disciplines should be named in it. I do not think sustainable development is enough to encompass that because there are varying definitions or understandings of what sustainable development may be. My last question is on the foreshore, the airspace. The Foreshore Act states something at the moment....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: From Ms Uí Bhroin's reading of it, would it be her understanding that if somebody wishes to carry out an aerial survey with this change being made that they would require foreshore licence approval if we bring airspace into it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: Ms Uí Bhroin has made the important point about the role played by a healthy ocean system in carbon sequestration, in addressing climate action as well as the energy requirement that we have. We must ensure that we do not sacrifice one to keep the other.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: We are quite tight for time but I expect similar questions from other members. We can come back to Deputy Ó Broin's questions about heads 7 and 9 at the end if that is okay. I will move on to Deputy Higgins, who is joining us online.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: We will have a 14-member board plus a chair giving 15 in total. I would not expect all 15 members to be single-discipline experts. I take Ms Uí Bhroin's point if the panel were depleted of a certain discipline or expertise, the board would then be left short of that. I would imagine that somebody with experience of architecture would also have knowledge of urban planning, spatial...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: I would like Mr. Lawlor to expand on that point. I will give him more time as he is making an important point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: The number on the panel should be maintained with a diverse range of skills. Ms Dubsky wanted to come in on a point that Ms Uí Bhroin made.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: I would like to stick to pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill before us. There is a significant review of the planning Act which will incorporate judicial review, and the committee will be fully engaged in that. Try another question, Deputy Gould.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: At the risk of repeating myself, Deputy Gould, we will have the OPR before the committee. The OPR produced a very substantial report, and the phase 2 report is due out in November. The committee would be well served to invite in the planning regulator as well as the Department on its review of An Bord Pleanála.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: I have two final questions before I wrap up a couple of points for clarification. In respect of the current panel system, with the named entities and the selection process, are our guests satisfied at the level of oversight, governance, reporting and transparency within those organisations to perform that role?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: I appreciate Mr. Lawlor can answer only on behalf of his nominating organisation. Are the reports, recommendations, selection processes and so on available for examination? Are there minutes of what is discussed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: We might like people who have experience in ecology and the marine environment, for example. Does the institute specify what kinds of disciplines it is looking for? I acknowledge it represents planners.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: Is Mr. Lawlor aware whether the other nominating organisations have processes such as that, if he can answer that question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: General Scheme of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment Bill) 2022: Discussion (10 Nov 2022)

Steven Matthews: That leads me to my next question, on recruitment and why somebody would want to be a member of An Bord Pleanála. When an organisation comes under the spotlight, as it is at the moment, and when there is so much speculation regarding wrongdoing that may have happened, it impacts on everybody who works in the organisation. In my experience of working with planners at local authority...

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