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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: It would also depend on the amount of the bank that the State owned, whether that was 100% or less, as in the case of Bank of Ireland.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: The State and all of us were either taking the full hit or slightly less.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: It never hits the actual income, profit and loss account.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: We are moving between millions and thousands.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: Did that figure make the profit and loss account?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: The argument the banks are using is that the ECB is forcing them to sell these quickly to reduce their non-performing loans.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: Mr. Butler's contention is that the ECB wants to have the loans in, but there is no requirement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: Does Mr. Butler think that the reason banks are engaging with vulture funds is because the banks do not want the reputational damage of evicting people, repossessing houses and all that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: They do not suffer the reputational damage on an individual house-by-house and transaction-by-transaction basis. They have, in a way, deferred that personal grief.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: What is the motivation for a bank selling an asset worth €700 million for €400 million?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: Less so than if people in yellow jackets turn up to evict me.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: Less so than if people turn up in hi-vis jackets on a Sunday morning and evict me.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: Take the example of a chief executive of a bank who has taken the hit from €1 billion to €700 million on a loan, who thinks it is recoverable at the latter value and is selling it for €400 million because the ECB has told him or her to do so.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: How does one record accounting profit when one has lost €300 million?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: The bank in that example never took the hit of €620 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: The €20 million is taken into the profit and loss account.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: Is nobody in the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement, ODCE, or the accounting bodies saying that is not okay? That is opposite to anything I ever learned during my training.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: Mr. Butler's contention is obviously that the liquidity issue that was argued for at the time of the guarantee was not a liquidity issue but a solvency issue. The Minister and the Government were told by the banks it was a liquidity issue. I was not a member of the banking inquiry, or a Member of these Houses when it was conducted, but the inquiry was told that the Government was told it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Matters Relating to the Banking Sector (Resumed): Pensions and Investment Research Consultants Ltd (28 May 2019)

Gerry Horkan: Mr. Butler's contention is that the Government probably did not know about the solvency crisis, it was told there was a liquidity crisis and accepted that, but the ECB knew there was a solvency crisis.

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