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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Mr. Kelly makes four points and Ms O'Sullivan is picking the last point, where only reasonable assurance can be given. In respect of the previous three points, Mr. Kelly can give no assurance in two instances and limited assurance in the third. Ms O'Sullivan instanced the fourth point, where only reasonable assurance can be given. Let us go back, is it correct that there are 50 accounts?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: We are talking about a period when young gardaí were being trained. There were 50 accounts and it has been identified - Ms O'Sullivan said they would not have had training at that time but they will have training now. In the course of the report, it states the number of accounts that were opened by gardaí who had no training in finance, for example, investment accounts and all...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: It has been said repeatedly, in addition to minimising what happened, that this is a legacy issue. The company was not set up until 1993, so let us stop talking about a time earlier than 1993. This audit looks at a period from 2009 onwards. We are not looking at issues prior to that because there are very few records and that is something that is ongoing about which Mr. Kelly presumably...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Okay. Was permission given for all of these accounts by the Minister for Justice and Equality, whoever he or she was?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Therefore, there is a breach. We will look at ethics and disclosure, and perhaps Mr. Kelly can help me, because he has set out all this in his report. I refer to page 21. Under the provisions of the Ethics in Public Office Act 1995, officeholders over a certain grade must make certain disclosures and this includes gardaí of the rank of superintendent and above. The second paragraph...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: To step forward might be-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: That is right, but after that-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Wait just one second. This Act came in in 1995. The company was formed in 1993. The company is still in existence. What disclosures have been made in that period of time since that legislation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Were conflicts of interest ever disclosed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I do not-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Going back to why this was not followed up in 2008, we had serious concerns raised in 2006 about obligations. Serious concerns were raised in 2008. It goes so far and no further. I understand the Commissioner endorsed it. Who was the Commissioner at that point in 2008?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I understand he said these were serious concerns, and then it went back. Nothing happened. We were given a briefing document yesterday about this matter. There is a gap. What were told in the document that we were supplied is that in 2008, An Garda Síochána's finance directorate concluded that there were major concerns. The then Commissioner, Mr. Fachtna Murphy, agreed with the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Deputy Commissioner Rice offered a view to the then Commissioner. How did he offer that view? Was it in writing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Is there a copy of it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Can we have a copy of it, please?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: We will continue with what he said. He offered the view to the then Commissioner that as the State had not provided money to develop and improve the social and sporting culture of Garda students, the companies and committees identified in the 2008 report were formed as the only means to develop and improve the social and sporting culture of the college. He goes on to say that he further...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Deputy Commissioner Rice was of the view that this money belonged to the Garda, had nothing to do with the State and was none of its business, and that Governments had failed to fund and resource the Garda; therefore, it was using the money.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I am quoting directly from what-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Is it a fair conclusion for me to draw that there was a man of a very high rank disagreeing with the Commissioner and saying he was in charge of the college and that this money belonged to An Garda, despite that it had come from the Government originally?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore
(4 May 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Am I over the top when I read this and draw the conclusion that it explains why nothing was done between 2008 and a few years later? This is the very reason, because the man in charge of the college said, "Feck off, this is our money", that is, this money is from the Government, through the Vote system.

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