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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: The Department of Education and Skills pays €61 million to CIE for school transport. My question on that scheme is similar. I presume the Department gives CIE the sum of €61 million for work which is, by and large, subcontracted to other bus operators.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Has CIE quantified the level of usage of school transport? Does the company make a profit on the €61 million it receives from the Department for school transport or is the scheme largely carried out by the subcontractors? Does CIE have a separate account for school transport?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: I presented the figures wrongly, for which I apologise. The company receives €61 million from the Department of Social Protection.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: The figure paid for school transport is €152 million. Is it the case that €16.7 million of this is set aside for administrative costs?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Is school transport a profitable scheme for CIE? Does the company make a profit from the various schemes or does it simply accept payment from different Departments without knowing whether the schemes are profitable?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: We can presume, therefore, that CIE makes a profit.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Last year, PricewaterhouseCoopers flagged issues relating to the accounts of CIE. The response of the Department and CIE was to come together with NewERA to monitor the accounts on a weekly basis. Two major elements of CIE's accounts are the €61 million and €152 paid to the company by the Department of Social Protection and Department of Education and Skills, respectively, for...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Is there not a note in the annual accounts relating to the profitability or otherwise of the two schemes?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: I ask the Comptroller and Auditor General to comment on the matter.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: I presume, as would be the case with any company, that CIE is involved in the schemes in question to make a profit and that the company has a rationale for all its activities.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: One takes what one is given. Surely, however, CIE has the ability to count the number of people who pass through its system and on that basis it could argue with the Government from time to time that it deserves a larger subvention because the number of people availing of the schemes has increased. Likewise, with regard to the Department of Education and Skills, which pays CIE €152...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: As I read these documents, it struck me that the Department of Education and Skills also pays the maintenance costs of some transport vehicles. I ask Mr. O'Mahony to check the position, ascertain the precise figure and provide it to me within the next week. I return to an issue relating to railway carriages which I raised some weeks ago with Mr. Murphy from the National Transport...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: I understand that. However, in coming before a committee like this and in declaring that you generally examine the accounts on a weekly basis, these are figures I would have expected you to know. One of the issues that came up with Mr. Murphy was that he had the ability to grant aid many of the projects through government, but he had no ability within his office to look at the costs on the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Can Mr. O'Mahony send us the information on what board members get, what the chairman gets and what the CEO of the organisation, or whatever title he has, gets?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Mr. O'Mahony might just provide us with the detailed figures on those and on the number of executives on salaries over €100,000 within each of the three organisations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: I need details on three issues with regard to CIE, but I do not expect Mr. O'Mahony to be able to provide the information on these this morning. There was an incident with regard to the illegal scrapping of commercial freight carriages and I would like to know the details of that. Will Mr. O'Mahony ask about that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: You will have to determine that from CIE. I understand the company knows of the incident and I would like to know whether the story is true or false.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: We spoke about the purchase of carriages and the non-use of carriages. Does the same apply to the locomotives that pull these carriages? How are they purchased, where are they maintained and who has the contract for their maintenance? Can Mr. O'Mahony provide that information also?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: Perhaps Mr. O'Mahony can check something else when searching for that information. A gentleman wrote to us and said that he was asked by the board to produce a report. I am probably free to name the company in question, Grimes & Company, because a copy of the report was sent to every member. Can Mr. O'Mahony determine the detail of that contract?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 32 - Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments Under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 26 - Collection of Motor Taxation
Financial Statements 2011 - National Roads Authority
(7 Feb 2013)

John McGuinness: That is the indication he gave.

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