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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: That is not all fraud.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Is this a percentage of €700 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Community welfare officers were transferred to the Department. They were being funded by the Department but they were employees of the HSE. How many of them have been transferred into fraud?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: We have had this discussion before.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I will give Ms O'Donoghue my perspective on this, which is very simple. We are dealing with this on the ground every day of the week. The vast majority of people getting social welfare payments go about it in the normal way. Many of them are struggling and are under an awful lot of pressure. However, there are abuses of the system. For example, 84,000 people were on rent supplement at...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: With due respect, many of these people will not get in under RAS because they will not pass the standards laid down under it. They stay on rent supplement in the long term. The scheme at that level is open to abuse.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I take Ms O'Donoghue's point about the principal officers. For the general public and for the vast majority of people who are claiming social welfare in the normal way, it does them a disservice. There is a perception that we have not got to grips with fraud. I would like to hear someone on the airwaves from the Department of Social Protection at assistant secretary level, who is heading...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: That will be under local authorities. It will not be the Department's responsibility.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: We need to look at the reality of what will happen when the 80,000 people who are on rent supplement are moved and differentiated. The good and normal people who are on that scheme will be moved on because it will be easy to accommodate them. The Department will be left with the cohort I am talking about. They will be left on the former rent supplement scheme unless the Department provides...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: The local community welfare officers take it very seriously.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Great.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I have asked about the specifics of putting procedural controls in place at local level.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Okay. I appreciate that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: I appreciate that. I would like to ask a general question about the Department's commitments under the troika programme. What is the current position regarding the Department's implementation of the particular commitments that have been given? Ms O'Donoghue might give me a general overview of where that is at.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: When is that coming in? When does the Department expect that to be in?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 – Social Protection
Chapter - 24 Supplementary Welfare Allowance
(18 Jul 2013)

Kieran O'Donnell: Yes.

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