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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I think that a one-page e-mail from Mr. McWilliams was fully ... full awareness, for you, I thought.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Thank you.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Thank you, Chairman. Briefly, for both of you, was there a discussion at Cabinet prior to the guarantee of the figures from the Department of Finance that showed that the country had gone officially into recession which became known, I think, to the Department from 25 or 24 September? Was that discussed at that Sunday meeting or at any other meeting?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: That's fair enough. Can I ask again, Mr. Gormley, maybe outside of the discussions with Mr. Cowen, Mr. Lenihan and the correspondence and phone calls with Mr. McWilliams, did you seek the advice of others at the time?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. For both of you, were you aware prior to the contribution of Mr. Cardiff to the inquiry that he expressed the view here in his statement and in his evidence that Minister Lenihan did not have full and frank discussions on matters concerning the banks at Cabinet because he was afraid that such matters would be leaked? Were you aware of that at the time or when did you subsequently...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Ms Harney?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. Finally, Mr. Gormley, were you aware that the NTMA, on the night of the guarantee and before it, held a view that a blanket guarantee wasn't the optimum solution in their view? And do you believe that as the effective funders of the State that they should have been involved and in the room directly in those discussions on the night concerning the guarantee?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: In light of that and, I mean, I don't want to harp on, I raised it earlier with you, but you were in Sandymount on the night. You weren't in Ballydehob, and you weren't in-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Ringsend?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Possibly even closer than Sandymount, or I'm not sure, maybe Deputy Murphy might know the geography better. But in light of that fact, I mean why did you not when you were presented with the opportunity, we know that the NTMA were in the room next door to the meeting, they weren't involved, perhaps even your presence might have led to them being included in the discussion. Why did you not...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (29 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Thank you.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Thank you Chairman. Good afternoon, Mr. Drury. Briefly at the start I want to refer to the Heritage dinner again. I took a note as you were speaking earlier and you said that the dinner of April 2008 was not special, that Mr. Cowen just happened to be next on the list and that it had to be rearranged a few times because of diary clashes. You also said that in your time eight ... you would...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Can you tell the inquiry who those people would have been?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: That's fair enough, I'm just interested-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Well, I'm interested to know and I think it is within the inquiry's terms of reference, particularly if any of them operated in public service areas that dealt with financial services or banking or development or any of the ambit that the inquiry has. I think that that ... You should answer that question.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: No, they are public servants, in particular.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: And politicians as well, I mean I know ... I can-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (30 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: But, I mean, all of them could, in theory at least, come under the ambit of what we are inquiring into. And that's why I think you should-----

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