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Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Deputy very much. I understand the intention. Amendment No. 42 addresses the concerns he quite rightly raises and it goes that bit further in being more broad as well. I agree with him and I think the issue is covered.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: I move amendment No. 44: In page 24, between lines 23 and 24, to insert the following: “Safety of children - AHR treatment provider 16. (1) This section shall not apply where section 52* applies to the relevant person in relation to the surrogacy agreement concerned. (2) An AHR treatment provider shall not provide AHR treatment to a relevant person unless the provider is...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank Deputies Shortall and Cullinane for the proposal. We are trying to find a balance here. We want some level of assessment and the question is where we set the bar. In other jurisdictions, the bar is set even higher than what we are proposing, which is that they are "satisfied". The providers are seeking to lower the bar to "aware" but I think that is too low. We must remember that...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: The primary concern, which we all share, is to protect the child. That comes first.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: That is why it is "satisfied" rather than "aware". The advice we have received from the Department of children is that "satisfied" is what we want in the context of the protection of the child. We are now discussing what is reasonable to expect a provider to do. The way this can be dealt with is through very clear regulation from the AHRRA that will say, for example, that the following...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: No, I mean the authority. It might be better if we had a different acronym for the authority because it is quite confusing. Regulation is probably the way to deal with that because it might change over time. The Department of children might say that we need to keep in line with other things and might want to add something. I can say there is no intent here that providers would be...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: That core interpretation will be in secondary legislation. I am not a lawyer and correct me if I am wrong but it is my understanding that the courts will look to the regulations and determine whether regulation A, B, or C was satisfied. That is------

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes, the reason being that it is a matter for the regulator or the authority to set that out. As per our previous conversation, this is new and it might be the case that with a bit of feedback or after the three-year review, issues-----

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: Clarity is provided through the regulations. The regulations are secondary legislation.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: The regulations have legal standing. Most of the Covid measures, for example, were provided for through regulation.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: I am open to correction, but it does. It is secondary legislation. Most of the Covid measures which were enforceable, and were enforced, were dealt with by way of statutory instrument rather than by primary legislation.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: Sure. We could also potentially add a line stating that the AHHRA will stipulate the regulations which define the term "satisfied". We will get a note on it.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: We will get a note on it. In order to provide additional certainty, we may add a line stating the AHHRA will have regulatory power to define the term "satisfied". I take the Deputy's point. Providers need clarity. Let us provide clarity around the term "satisfied". I do not want to drop the bar and use the term "aware". I do not think that would be right in terms of child protection.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: We will take a look.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: My understanding is that through my amendments we are seeking to delete and replace section 16.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: That is amendment No. 44.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes. To be absolutely clear, amendment No. 44, which introduces the new section 16, has been passed.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022: Committee Stage (24 Jan 2024)

Stephen Donnelly: I might ask the official to give the Deputy a response to that.

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