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Interim Report on Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services: Statements (26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: We move to Sinn Féin. I call Deputy Réada Cronin, who is sharing time with Deputy Pat Buckley.

Interim Report on Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services: Statements (26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: I call Deputy Gary Gannon.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: I welcome all the officials back to the committee. How long has Mr. Doyle been in the Department as Secretary General?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: Today we are reading that unfortunately we have missed targets as announced by the Taoiseach yesterday. We have an underspend in the Department, if Mr. Doyle's figures are correct, of €451 million. It will be carrying it through to 2022, just €247 million. We also read today in the newspapers that 28%, more than a quarter, of the grants of permission will not be commenced....

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: I ask Mr. Doyle to give me just one. What is his biggest problem in the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: We will go to the issue of interest rates. We can come back to that. There is a very detailed report in The Journal today that said that the cost of building a two-bed, medium-rise suburban apartment is now €240,000. Would Mr. Doyle agree with that figure? That figure is ex-site costs and just the building. Would he agree with that figure?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: It is for a two-bed suburban apartment in the likes of County Wexford.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: What would Mr. Doyle think that it costs to build a two-bed house?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: We will say that this is pertinent to Wexford.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: What would Mr. Doyle say that would cost?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: How much less?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: Give us a ball-park figure.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: Mr. Doyle is the Secretary General. He must have a figure off the top of his head.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: Let me give it to Mr. Doyle. It is €140,000. That is €100,000 less. That is at the top end. It is €140,000 for a two-bed house versus €240,000 for a two-bed apartment. What is the issue there?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: Well, I have read it-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: -----and I can assure Mr. Doyle that this is the figure.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: So what problem does that throw up to us? Some 28% of SHDs will never be built, according to the newspapers this morning.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: Viability. There you go.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: Viability is the serious issue. Would Mr. Doyle agree that our planning policy and everybody from the regulator does not consider viability when it comes to planning policy?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Verona Murphy: Would Mr. Doyle agree with that statement? It has been repeated a number of times by people, such as the planning regulator, that viability is not a planning consideration.

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