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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: That is fair enough. I would agree with that and I will work with the Deputy on the mechanisms by which we can do that. There is change happening in the family court system and even with the new family court building. I am determined to get those changes through. The Deputy is correct about removing the pressure from the individual. It should be more systemic. When decisions are made in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: At the core of what the Deputy is saying is, to a certain extent, our multi-seat proportional representation system. We bring it upon ourselves. We are a small island in some respects. Our politics is very local. The Deputy will know that if I ever it suggested a Friday legislative sitting, even when I was in opposition, I would get glares from the entire Front Bench.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: To me, it is a more logical way of working. We should have a legislative day but the politics of it do not allow for that because people want the argy-bargy every day. Deputy Tóibín is looking at me. People want Leaders' Questions and the Order of Business. In a previous Government, back when I was a backbench Deputy in the late 1990s, we did a legislative day on a Friday. It...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: At a governmental level, we were exclusively focused on policy. As we return now, that is being dragged left, right and centre. It is full on again. Some of us love that engagement with people and so on. I like that kind of politics. I know what I signed up for, so to speak, so I do not complain about it. That said, it is very challenging and frightens people away from coming into...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: I spoke about a five-day week. When we had a legislative sitting on a Friday, not everybody had to attend.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: There was a bit of flexibility in that regard. A vote would not be called on a Friday, amendments would not be put and so on. The Deputy is absolutely correct about having flexibility on a Monday. One positive about politics is that one has a degree of autonomy over one's working day, to a certain degree. That is a benefit. One can move things around and balance them. I take the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: We have always taken an incremental approach to the eligibility threshold. To be fair, someone has to watch public expenditure within any governmental system. That is the role. However, we need to look at the situation in the round. That goes to the Deputy's point about universality of access to maintenance, child benefit and so on. Child benefit was always universal but that approach...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: I hear the Deputy. I had not intended asking questions but the Taoiseach's answers have tempted me. It is too tempting for us to continue talking about gender, democracy and our electoral system because it is a subject where we have direct experience. I certainly agree with the Taoiseach that quotas alone at local level will not necessarily produce the benefit we want. We have been quite...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: Regarding gender, democracy and participation, workload is an issue. This is why I mentioned the issue of pay and conditions because increasingly, councillors have an enormous amount of work to do at local level from planning to housing and very often, the councillor is the first point of call in terms of representations on these issues. At county council level in particular, the geographic...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: I am of the view that all schools should have an obligation to provide for special education and should not be in a position to refuse. That competes with other rights in terms of autonomy of the school but where the State is funding schools to the degree that it does, the broad principle of the State is inclusivity. When I was Minister for Education and Science from 1997 to 2000, we had...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: No, it is annoyed with us.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: On the Deputy's first point, I do not believe the comment she made is fair in the sense that she juxtaposed my position and the frustration of people over not getting the amendment. I have been involved with various referendums. Referendum commissions are given a job to do and need time to do it. When I am asked for a specific timeline, I want to make sure it allows the commission time to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: Yes, but ultimately we need agreement. We do not have it. The committee has to come back to us at the end of the year.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: I am not clear on what the Deputy is saying. A cross-departmental-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: -----on the Constitution could just muddy the waters.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: The Government is committed to the strategy on women and girls, for example. It is being worked on and, similar to Housing for All, will provide an overarching framework.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: On the Deputy's second point, in respect of which she quoted Professor Farrell, fundamentally it is the Oireachtas Members who are elected. It falls to the Oireachtas to make decisions. The Oireachtas committee worked on the eighth amendment, for example. It did not stick to the letter of what the citizens' assembly prescribed. Not every member of the committee voted for it. Some were...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Gender Equality: Recommendations of the Report of the Citizens’ Assembly on Gender Equality: Discussion (Resumed) (12 Oct 2022)

Micheál Martin: As a general point, that is valid. Members are elected by people as well, and they have different views, as we know. People will want to do things differently. That is the balance we want to get right. I would engage on Professor Farrell's point that the model is too managerial. I believe he was involved with the original models. There was criticism in certain quarters of this House of...

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