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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: How much of that is residential?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It is probably about half.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: I am trying to find out what it costs. Someone said they were not interested in a blanket write-down, but we are. People rightly say the State should demand a write-down of the unsustainable debts that are on the back of the State.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Is that for residential mortgages?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: What we are proposing is to write down to current market values the residential mortgages. Approximately how much would that cost?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: We are interested in keeping roofs over people’s heads.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It is probably approximately €3 billion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Okay. Perhaps it is between €3 billion and €4 billion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It is my time to ask questions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: The point is that all and sundry are saying that the State would like to write down its debts to sustainable levels in order that the economy can recover when it comes to debts. We apply the same principle to residential mortgages. That would be the easiest way to sort this out. The bank has been provisioned to do that. This gets to the heart of the question of whose interests the public...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Exactly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Okay, if Mr. MacSharry does not mind, I heard him say those things already. That is not clear at all to me. The 2010 Act states that the public interest duty imposed on directors takes priority over any other directorial duty. That is clear. They have a mandate to vindicate the public interest over any other duty. If the public had any opportunity to instruct them as to what representing...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: So we have hundreds of people wading through, trying to figure out on a case-by-case basis what is sustainable and what the bank considers acceptable. Enormous resources are being wasted on that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Let me put it another way because I have two minutes left. Is not everybody who took out a mortgage, more or less from 2000 to 2008 - or who lost their job as a result of the crash, and who consequently cannot pay their mortgage - an innocent victim of a crisis caused by other people in the banking system?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: To my mind, surely there is no moral hazard in giving them relief. It is in the public interest both in terms of the economy and for them as members of the public, that they get relief which should require debt write-down. The moral hazard for most of the public is that the banks who caused the crisis are the ones who get bailed out across the board. All the banks get bailed out but the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It is because most people are not scammers like, arguably, the bankers and speculators were.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: Yes, but would it not-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: They would.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It is very simple. If we identify the bubble period - and it is not hard to identify it, between about 2002 and 2008 - that group of people, whether or not they are in mortgage distress now, or whether they are in negative equity - which is also a form of distress, although not as bad as being in arrears - are unique. They are in trouble through no fault of their own. We could quantify how...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Role and Contribution of Public Interest Directors in Financial Institutions: Discussion with Permanent TSB (19 Dec 2012)

Richard Boyd Barrett: It seems to me that there is no way out of this mess if we carry on because you guys have a veto. Mr. MacSharry has said he will continue to act primarily in the interests of the company. On a number of occasions, he has stated that he finds himself bound by company law. There is clearly a conflict between his loyalty or requirement to serve the best interests of the company as against the...

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