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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: Let us say it was a normal company. The profits would be taxed, the post-tax profits would be distributed and those distributions would then be taxed. Pension funds are different in that their profits are not taxed; they are distributed and then the policyholder is taxed but I am trying to establish the difference for the life assurance fund. A life assurance fund is different. First of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: I fully support the policy intent, which is to apply withholding tax in circumstances where it should be applied but where it is either not being applied or being avoided at present. However, if one compares the new IREF world into which we are moving to that which existed in 2010, it would appear that a vast swathe of property investment is going to move largely outside the tax net. We all...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: It does not apply to REITs?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: I accept that but, essentially, what we are clarifying in law is that there are two different tax regimes. There is one for the ordinary citizen who buys a one-bedroom apartment because he or she pays USC, PRSI and income tax on the rent and full capital gains tax on the sale - if there are any gains. Then there is a separate tax regime for rich people who can afford the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: Not really. There are the normal tax deductions, which are business costs. As an analogy, we are applying what we are doing in property to non-property. If a person has the money to open a launderette, café, popcorn stand or sweetshop, he will pay corporation tax on any profits. If he incurs any capital gains, he will pay full capital gains tax, withholding tax will be applied to any...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: That sort of investment opportunity is not available to the average person. People-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: Groups of 20 average citizens do not get together to set up collective asset management vehicles. Wealthy people who can afford lawyers set up collective asset management vehicles.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: Sure, it can be done through a pension fund, but nonetheless we are now embedding in law a situation that states that a small property investor will pay a range of taxes but a big property investor will not. That is what this is doing. It is just like saying that if a person can open a sweetshop he will pay a range of taxes, but if he can open a €20 million company he will not. Does...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: I appreciate that and I have no problem with the logic, which is taking the current situation and saying it will make it a bit better. However, the current situation is the result of the past five or six years of massive tax breaks on property. We can see what has happened. We know that the property investors were approached, told that these new vehicles that are tax free have been created...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: Let me make two quick points. First, that a company pays tax and then the individual shareholders pay income tax on the post-tax profits is not double taxation. That happens in every company around the world. The company pays its corporation tax and whatever else as well as the shareholders and the shareholders pay tax. Double taxation occurs when, for example, a company invests in a...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: That is not what is going on in the property market. The funds directly own the property. It is not as if a fund owns the ice cream shop, the ice cream shop is taxed, the fund is then taxed and then the shareholders are taxed. That would be double taxation, but that is not what is happening. It is not as if the funds own property companies that are paying tax and we are saying that the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2016: Committee Stage (Resumed) (15 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: This is the section 110 companies which are not allowed to own the property and can only own the loan. They too get direct income from the loans in the interest and capital payments. We will leave it at that. It would be very useful to get a report from the Department looking at the evolution of property tax in Ireland over the last ten years because I believe it would show the following....

Post Office Network: Motion [Private Members] (16 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: My colleagues, the rural Independent Deputies, deserve great credit for using their Private Members' time to bring forward this motion, which seeks to secure the future for rural post offices. I commend them on a thoughtful, well-considered motion. My understanding is that the Government will not oppose the motion which, if I am right, is to be welcomed. We are all acutely aware of the...

Finance Bill 2016: Report Stage (22 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: I welcome the amendment. A point was raised about non-executives who worked for charities and non-profit organisations and it is particularly welcome that the amendment appears to help them. I have a question about the so-called high rollers, whatever number they constitute. In the case of a non-executive director of a company who earns any amount above €5,000 - let us say he...

Finance Bill 2016: Report Stage (22 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: My question was about the principle, with which I am struggling. I understand that in the amendment the Minister has capped the total amount at €5,000 for anyone in a non-executive role. If a person, regardless of what he or she earns from his or her non-executive role, breaches the cap included in the amendment, such costs are taxed. In the case of a person who has to travel to...

Finance Bill 2016: Report Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: I support this amendment because we need to know what effect this scheme will have on house prices. I would like included in any such report, the impact not just on first-time buyers, which the Minister hopes will be positive, but on the negative equity generation. On Committee Stage, the Minister said he would look at help for the negative equity generation. His office sent me on the...

Finance Bill 2016: Report Stage (Resumed) (23 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: Speaking on behalf of those trapped in negative equity and who are being hit with these large tax bills, the Minister's response is not enough. Imagine if the tax law was to the effect that, if someone got his or her first job between 2002 and 2008, that person would have to pay an extra €5,000 in tax per year even though that would not be the case for anyone else. I hope that not...

Finance Bill 2016: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (23 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: I want to speak specifically to the amendment and not get back into the debate about whether the banks should be allowed to bring forward their tax losses as tax credits. The Minister's counter argument on Committee Stage was that it was a difficult thing to do. The Minister was concerned about changing normal business practice and he argued that his normal way of doing it was to bring in...

Finance Bill 2016: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (23 Nov 2016)

Stephen Donnelly: The Minister was absent on Committee Stage. I reiterate that there is recognition of what has been achieved. Huge progress has been made and I thank the Minister and his officials for the time spent on this issue. The original draft proposal was leaky, but it seemed to have been tightened considerably and was tightened again between Committee and Report Stages. I acknowledge what is very...

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