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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: If I recall correctly from newspaper reports, the Minister of State attended various events in the context of financial services development. We need a full note on this issue and we should be given details of who lobbied, when they lobbied and what they lobbied about or sought to achieve.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: Regarding the Department's and the Revenue Commissioners' relationships with REITs and similar funds, will the Minister of State tell us whether there was any lobbying regarding any aspects of this year's Finance Bill in respect of any of these matters? I do not think-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: Last year I raised, not in this committee but in another one, and in the context of the Finance Act generally, the question of the application of the Regulation of Lobbying Act within the Department of Finance, where, as the Minister of State will be aware, Ministers and certain levels of officials are designated. I had a problem with the way in which the Department of Finance is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: No. This is very pertinent to the topic because there is a kind of chase going on. We are talking at length about various structures of investment that have significant tax exemptions and tax benefits. I have certainly read in the newspapers about their lobbying. What I am asking the Minister of State is, if they have lobbied, may we have a look at what exactly they have lobbied about?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: Also, who in the Department is a designated official for the purposes of the Regulation of Lobbying Act?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: The officials may be able to advise him.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: Second, I understood the Minister of State to say that, presumably following more work by the CSO or further publication of census data, he will have information.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: As in other cities with REIT-style investments, investors tend to want to get rid of existing tenants and re-let apartments, perhaps having done them up, at much higher rents. This is a Government policy and has nothingper seto do with any of the officials, but could the Minister of State enlighten us on that policy? In New York, San Francisco and the City of London, similar vehicles result...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: We have good examples of pension fund-type investments. This morning, the Taoiseach discussed meeting Nordic countries on the fringes of the Council meeting. The Minister of State should go for a walk in places like Amsterdam-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: No. Just hold on.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: Trade unions-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: I am perfectly aware of that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: Hold on. Do not get excited.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: Let me ask my question.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: Trade unions have a model that involves long-term investment in, for example, properties that people can rent, but I am speaking about a different matter, namely, the evidence in respect of some REITs. I agree that 2,400 apartments or whatever the number may be is a small share of the property market.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: We all have a vested interest in trying to ensure that people can rent homes at reasonable prices. If that contributes to someone building up a pension fund in a fair and sustainable way, I am all for it, as I am sure is every Deputy present. However, the issue is that, in some cases, existing tenants are being turfed out and new, better off tenants are brought in at much higher rents. Our...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: I do not smoke, although if another Minister was about, I might.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: I apologise for being slightly late. May I ask the Chairman about my amendment No. 27?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: Is it out of order?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2017)

Joan Burton: Sorry, I mean the amendment before that.

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